Improving Strategies for Sumo Game

[Shiroiokami 14]

Hi all! I have become an avid fan of sumo since last March. I wanted to talk to others about how to improve my strategies in selecting rikishi for Sumo Game. I'm currently doing fairly well but that's way more to do with facing drones and being low in the Banzuke still than my own skill. My current above average days is around 42% and I only scored 88 points this basho, both of which I would like to boost significantly. I know to look at each matchups history and stick with the wrestlers doing well and select the opponents of those who are injured/doing poorly, but I feel like I'm still missing more of the subtle picks that give people that edge. Any advice would be hugely appreciated!

[Kintamayama 44,646]

8 hours ago, Shiroiokami said:

Hi all! I have become an avid fan of sumo since last March. I wanted to talk to others about how to improve my strategies in selecting rikishi for Sumo Game. I'm currently doing fairly well but that's way more to do with facing drones and being low in the Banzuke still than my own skill. My current above average days is around 42% and I only scored 88 points this basho, both of which I would like to boost significantly. I know to look at each matchups history and stick with the wrestlers doing well and select the opponents of those who are injured/doing poorly, but I feel like I'm still missing more of the subtle picks that give people that edge. Any advice would be hugely appreciated!

Sumo Game, like all games, involves more of a luck factor than anyone of us would like to admit. That said, knowing all the facts you stated is of course important. Many will disagree with me on this, but patience is needed to cross the Makushita threshold where a lot of ghosts live. For me in this specific game, it's all about the placement. There is a natural tendency to place the higher ranked rikishi at the top, which I think is a mistake. I used to be one of the top players in this game, but retired after being demoted from yokozuna. I re - entered from the bottom but have been having problems getting back up for a very long time. Maybe next basho in Makuuchi again finally after nearly four years of trying. And I tell you, my rise in rank back then came with  a high percentage of luck. My advice-stick with what you are doing- in time, you'll get there.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kintamayama

[Athenayama 999]

+1 to all that our venerable Kintamayama mentioned here above.

If I could add somehing (obvious) it would be of course to watch ALL the bouts live if possible (to watch the few seconds after the bout is over which is not always showed in the highlights). Hence (also with experience) you can acquire a "subconscious" feeling how a rikishi performs in that particular basho.  Small injuries you can perceive  (momentary or not), bad shape (momentary or not!)..... not always easy but it could help make the right decision in some bouts that could lead you to a win.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Athenayama

[Oskanohana 233]

As current Sumo Games World Champion and current Yusho winner of Sumo Game, I completely disagree with the luck factor that is claimed. I won both because I was the bestest of them all and that's an objective truth. Luck had nothing to do with it. In my case, luck is only involved when I do poorly.

In all seriousness, I would add one more thing. Know thyself. Know your biases and learn when to trust your gut and when your gut is telling you that Takakeisho is bound to lose today just because you don't like his style of sumo.

Oh, and never trust Kagayaki.

[Gaijingai 1,550]

I was a regular in Makuuchi for many years in the sumo game, but was never a real fan of it. Why did I play it? Because it was there! The reason I was not a fan was due to time zones. I live in eastern US. I go to bed 10 or 11 o’clock. You see around midnight to 1 AM, the kyujo’s are announced. My opponents, who were in better time, zones, and awake, therefore, would change their lineups to have the fusensho winner at the top. I lost too many daily matches because of that. I could never think of a way to prohibit that from being done that would be fair for all in all time zones. If I could have, I would’ve suggested it to the game inventor and hopefully it would’ve been instituted.

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

18 minutes ago, Gaijingai said:

I could never think of a way to prohibit that from being done that would be fair for all in all time zones.

There's an "easy" solution: submit 12 picks and use the top 10 after removing fusen bouts.

Dunno if I want to see that happen, though...

[Kajiyanosho 38]

This post prompted me to look at the stats. I ended up with a 7-8 MK on senshuraku, with 99 points overall. The 14th highest score overall and the only MK among the top 20 for total points. Obviously it's all bad luck! 

It looks like I'll be stuck in Makushita for a little bit longer. Obviously I don't feel wise enough to give advice. When I don't have much time (which is very often), I just pick the order looking at both sumoDB and OddSumo's quotes. When I started playing (and was relatively new to sumo too) I tended to give too much weight to head-to-head stats vs. current state of form. 

[Gaijingai 1,550]

3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

There's an "easy" solution: submit 12 picks and use the top 10 after removing fusen bouts.

Dunno if I want to see that happen, though...

Says the man in the better time zone. 

[Athenayama 999]

1 hour ago, Gaijingai said:

Says the man in the better time zone. 

Well, all that is relative. It is much easier for me to stay awake till, let's say, 02:00 AM than to have to wake up at 05:00 AM !

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

7 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

patience is needed to cross the Makushita threshold where a lot of ghosts live

This is a huge understatement. It will take literally years of good results to climb out of Makushita in SG.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

6 hours ago, Oskanohana said:

Know thyself

This is the layer I am only getting to. 

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

5 hours ago, Gaijingai said:

I was a regular in Makuuchi for many years in the sumo game, but was never a real fan of it. Why did I play it? Because it was there! The reason I was not a fan was due to time zones. I live in eastern US. I go to bed 10 or 11 o’clock. You see around midnight to 1 AM, the kyujo’s are announced. My opponents, who were in better time, zones, and awake, therefore, would change their lineups to have the fusensho winner at the top. I lost too many daily matches because of that. I could never think of a way to prohibit that from being done that would be fair for all in all time zones. If I could have, I would’ve suggested it to the game inventor and hopefully it would’ve been instituted.

This is true for many games. 

[Shiroiokami 14]

Wow this is the most conversation I've had about this so far! I really appreciate the input! I agree with what everyone has said about the luck factor, and I feel better about my strategies as I try to watch every match either live or recorded the next day in order to see how each wrestler is performing. Selecting my order appears to be my major saving grace in my tournaments so far as I have an 80% win rate when it comes to ties, but I still have the foreboding feeling that once I start pushing the top of Makushita, trying to get KK's while averaging just around 90 points is going to be extremely difficult. I think the suggestion on recognizing your biases is a great point as I've been very reluctant to pick Ryuden because I strongly dislike him as a person. Also, as a statistician, it makes me wish the sumo.db was downloadable in an excel/csv format so I could try and make terrible predictive models of who would win each bout.

 

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

46 minutes ago, Athenayama said:

It is much easier for me to stay awake till, let's say, 02:00 AM than to have to wake up at 05:00 AM !

How about staying awake till 05:00 AM? 

[Kintamayama 44,646]

6 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

This is true for many games. 

And some games have provisions. Chaingang, ISP, Bench Sumo, Tipspiel when applicable..

Edited November 29, 2023 by Kintamayama

[Athenayama 999]

6 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

How about staying awake till 05:00 AM? 

That's happening when I watch American Football.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

And some games have provisions. Chaingang, ISP, Bench Sumo..

Yes, they do.

In SG, the problem would be solved by introducing backup picks that kick in in case of fusen. But this would require updating the software, making old records/stats somewhat irrelevant etc.

And it would make droning more effective, and Makushita is already full of drones. 

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

Just now, Athenayama said:

That's happening when I watch American Football.

Why would you do such a thing?! 

[Athenayama 999]

1 minute ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Why would you do such a thing?! 

Because I'm a sports fan freak?

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

Just now, Athenayama said:

Because I'm a sports fan freak?

I am just kidding. 

[Athenayama 999]

I figured that but I couldn't help to reply.

[Shiroiokami 14]

I just wanna know how much of Saiwaifuji's soul they had to give up in order to do so well in the past 4 bashos, it's kinda insane. The dude know's something we plebians don't.

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

3 hours ago, Gaijingai said:

6 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

There's an "easy" solution: submit 12 picks and use the top 10 after removing fusen bouts.

Dunno if I want to see that happen, though...

Says the man in the better time zone. 

It's not so much about taking advantage (as Athenayama said, 5am isn't exactly comfy either) but having to pick 12 when it's hard to find even 10 most of the time.

[Asashosakari 18,967]

Looking at Saiwaifuji's player page has just been my periodic reminder of how depressingly undynamic I find the banzuke-making in SG to be.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 44,646]

3 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

This is a huge understatement. It will take literally years of good results to climb out of Makushita in SG.

It took me three years the second time (started from scratch) and 2 and a half the third time (started from scratch). No Makushita when I first started playing back in Kyushu 2000..