Oshoma Accused of Harassment

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

7 hours ago, dingo said:

I know all that, yet there was no issue throwing for example Harumafuji out over a microphone incident. Of course yokozuna has to have hinkaku and is under much more public scrutiny, but one low ranked rikishi shouldn't be that important. There's multiple heya without any sekitori and they seem to do fine. 

You answered your own question. A public incident is impossible to deny, but things happening inside a heya often belong to "he said, she said" territory. Anzai wasn't actually hurt physically, and perception of Oshoma's alleged attempt to re-break his elbow could be very subjective. And nobody is going to investigate Oshoma being rude to other deshi, obviously.

Of course, everything can change if we get more damaging details related to this story. 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

11 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

"he said, she said"

Being facetious, but I think you mean "he said, he said" 

Although that being said, the Harumafuji incident blew up as badly as it did also partially because Takanoiwa went to hospital and had an ass for a stablemaster. I consider it possible that 10+ years, ago, "I slipped in the bath and hit my head" may well have passed if everyone involved agreed to keep it hush-hush, knowing what honne-tatemae is like.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Seiyashi

[Koorifuu 858]

Even so, the impression I had back then was that Takanoiwa's alleged injuries were greatly exaggerated. It felt more like Takanohana was all out to revolutionise the kyokai and this was an excuse for an attempted coup.

[Chartorenji 235]

14 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Even so, the impression I had back then was that Takanoiwa's alleged injuries were greatly exaggerated. It felt more like Takanohana was all out to revolutionise the kyokai and this was an excuse for an attempted coup.

Obviously stuff has got to change. But I wouldn't put all my eggs in Takanohana's basket either. 

[RabidJohn 1,628]

I don't know how this kid got injured originally, but if he honestly expected his opponents not to target what they perceive as his weaknesses, then he's much better off out of ozumo.

Naruto-san just told him straight, IMO.

[Koorifuu 858]

21 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I don't know how this kid got injured originally, but if he honestly expected his opponents not to target what they perceive as his weaknesses, then he's much better off out of ozumo.

Naruto-san just told him straight, IMO.

I very much doubt that's all there is to it. It's one thing to do it as a matter of preparation for competitive bouts, a whole another thing to aim at aggravating those injuries further in order to assert alpha male dominance inside the premises.

It wasn't discussed here, but there's further translations in Twittersphere that Oshoma broke someone else's sternum by jumping on his chest after a training bout, too. 

You could still chalk all of this down to "just another day in the ozumo world", depending on how much of a traditionalist you are, but it certainly doesn't look as soft as your comment implies.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Oshoma broke someone else's sternum by jumping on his chest after a training bout

I haven't read that. 

[Koorifuu 858]

3 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I haven't read that. 

 

That was on patricia dobashi's Twitter thread.

Note that I haven't looked into any article about this and am trusting hearsay from known sources. That could've been a fabrication, for all I know.

[Yarimotsu 513]

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

That was on patricia dobashi's Twitter thread.

I've heard this person isn't always the most reliable translator, and I think the source was the same article I read.

 

Some might get the impression from my initial post in this thread that I'm trying to excuse this kind of alleged behaviour. Absolutely not the case - I am just no longer the kind to take rumour and accusations at face value (for reasons unrelated to sumo). It seems like in oozumo that this will lead to me never really believing any of the gossip and probably glossing over almost all scandals, because I'd rather give the accused their chance to plead innocence even if they cannot actually acknowledge or deny allegations. That's just how I want to manage my own conscience. If the man with the broken sternum comes forward and says "Oshoma did it and Naruto covered it up" that still wouldn't remove 100% of my doubt. In any case, the latest I've seen from anyone still at the stable is them all training publicly on the 28th and looking fairly normal. Doesn't prove anything one way or the other, and as others have said, it likely never will.

[RabidJohn 1,628]

If Naruto has sat by and watched Oshoma deliberately injure his deshi, then both of them should be out. That's just unacceptable.

But did Oshoma actually "jump" or simply fall unavoidably?

And there's a ton of ambiguity in Anzai's statement above.

"What are you going to do about it?" asks Oshoma, wondering how his heya-mate will try to defend his weakened elbow. 

"Boss?" Anzai looks towards Naruto.

"It's always been like that, kid," advises the oyakata sagely.

Edited November 6, 2023 by RabidJohn

[Katooshu 3,079]

A lot of unclear details about this case to me, but repeatedly targeting a heya mate's injury in practice is a dangerous and total dickhead move, not something I buy as a legitimate way to help them prepare for opponents who may go after it as a weakness. That approach is just going to make it a bigger weakness. Anzai had done sumo since he was a kid, had been in ozumo for 5 years, and had gotten through injury before, so he doesn't strike me as a snowflake. 

Next thing we'll hear is that kicking out injured knees is actually some benevolent gesture. 

Whatever's been happening, Naruto's had ongoing major injury problems they'll hopefully get under control.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

3 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

If the man with the broken sternum comes forward and says "Oshoma did it and Naruto covered it up" that still wouldn't remove 100% of my doubt.

[dingo 1,109]

Aacording to the tweet Oshoma was also accused of punching Anzai in the eye, causing him to lose eyesight for several days. Now I can totally see an accidental eye punch happening in high intensity sumo, but if it was intentional then that's very far removed from toughening someone up. 

[Koorifuu 858]

Naruto-beya posted their usual pre-basho Instagram stories.

Kyujo announced for Mishima and Karino, the rest have their own "Konnichiwa, [shikona] desu, ganbarimasu" message. Business as usual, no red flags whatsoever unlike last time.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Asashosakari 18,651]

Well, except for those two absences potentially corresponding to the Shukan Shincho claim that two more rikishi had already decided to call it quits at the time of publication.

[Koorifuu 858]

21 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Well, except for those two absences potentially corresponding to the Shukan Shincho claim that two more rikishi had already decided to call it quits at the time of publication.

I'd thought of that, and Mishima in particular would be a good fit for the descriptions, but they're laying low for now if that's the case.

Only kyujo announced, not intai, and through the exact same kind of message that they usually use for regular kyujo. Two months ago at this point, there was that inconspicuously vague intai message on Anzai's behalf.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Yamanashi 3,673]

Mishima was 0-4-3 last basho, so there's some reason to wonder.  Karino hasn't had a bout yet, kyujo for 3 basho since Maezumo and currently banzuke-gai. As I have watched the rikishi intro videos over ~ 3 years now, I can say that kyujo rikishi don't make a pre-basho video, and Karino is not a good fit with the narrative.