Kintamayama

GTB Kyushu 2023 - RESULTS!! 194 entries

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13 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

67 points despite some very obvious missed stuff, so surely the winning score will be 70+. 74-ish wouldn't surprise me, maybe even higher.

 

you would've been right if I had procrastinated less and submitted this bad boy

banzukefail.png.249557c84b2ad5ff31355861b87188b1.png

(Anotheryearolder...)

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15 hours ago, Gurowake said:

So what you're saying is that we should only count bulls-eyes, and not give less points for some near misses like in Australian football?  I think that would actually be more fair, for the same reason the Reonito said.

At least, the tiebreaker should be most bullseyes, not most hits...

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On 30/10/2023 at 16:22, Reonito said:

At least, the tiebreaker should be most bullseyes, not most hits...

The tiebreaker is most correct guesses of the rank, which means that hits > bullseyes. I think that's just as fair.

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1 hour ago, Kashunowaka said:

The tiebreaker is most correct guesses of the rank, which means that hits > bullseyes. I think that's just as fair.

Right, the premise of the scoring system is that if someone is actually ranked 5w, a guess of 5e is "closer" than a guess of 6e because it gets "the rank" right. That's what @Gurowake and I are questioning, not that it'll ever change. The scoring system certainly makes sense when there's an actual difference in rank—no one would argue that guessing M1e for someone ranked K1w is as good as guessing K1e. But one could argue that within the maegashira ranks, the exact number doesn't have any special meaning, so off by half-a-rank is off by half-a-rank, regardless of whether that's at the same number or the adjacent one. After all, that's sort of how the scoring works in the named ranks—if you correctly guess that someone is ranked Ozeki, you get at least a point, even if (say) they're O2w and you guessed O1e.

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Well you could also argue that we benchmark all our entries against the kyokai's guess, which is often filled with errors - so really when you get down to it the definition of a 'hit' is just a minor thing considered.

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11 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Well you could also argue that we benchmark all our entries against the kyokai's guess, which is often filled with errors - so really when you get down to it the definition of a 'hit' is just a minor thing considered.

Ah, the "platonic banzuke" ideal

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5 hours ago, Reonito said:

Right, the premise of the scoring system is that if someone is actually ranked 5w, a guess of 5e is "closer" than a guess of 6e because it gets "the rank" right. That's what @Gurowake and I are questioning, not that it'll ever change. The scoring system certainly makes sense when there's an actual difference in rank—no one would argue that guessing M1e for someone ranked K1w is as good as guessing K1e. But one could argue that within the maegashira ranks, the exact number doesn't have any special meaning, so off by half-a-rank is off by half-a-rank, regardless of whether that's at the same number or the adjacent one. After all, that's sort of how the scoring works in the named ranks—if you correctly guess that someone is ranked Ozeki, you get at least a point, even if (say) they're O2w and you guessed O1e.

I still think the scoring should just be a mathematical calculation of deviation from the kyokai's answer. But as our diligent administrator often types, the rules are the rules and will never change.

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I have an excellent suggestion for the growing wave of disgruntled players regarding the scoring system, which seemed to be widely accepted until recently.. Start a parallel game(s) where the Banzuke can be guessed with whatever rules you see fit.. There are so many in-basho parallel sumo games so why not more between- banzuke games? You have my sincere blessings.

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Nah. There is only one GTB for me, the original and the best ;-)

 

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12 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I have an excellent suggestion for the growing wave of disgruntled players regarding the scoring system, which seemed to be widely accepted until recently.. Start a parallel game(s) where the Banzuke can be guessed with whatever rules you see fit.. There are so many in-basho parallel sumo games so why not more between- banzuke games? You have my sincere blessings.

Nobody wants exactly the same game with a slightly different set of rules. And I don't see much room for a completely different banzuke game. 

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Another distinct guess the banzuke game would be to have to make your picks before the basho starts.  It would be effectively impossible to get bullseyes with anyone but the top of the banzuke, so obviously there would be plenty of room for being close.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Another distinct guess the banzuke game would be to have to make your picks before the basho starts.  It would be effectively impossible to get bullseyes with anyone but the top of the banzuke, so obviously there would be plenty of room for being close.

We could also try to guess the banzuke of 2026. (Sigh...)

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48 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:
2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Another distinct guess the banzuke game would be to have to make your picks before the basho starts.  It would be effectively impossible to get bullseyes with anyone but the top of the banzuke, so obviously there would be plenty of room for being close.

We could also try to guess the banzuke of 2026. (Sigh...)

That's called the Polls. ;-)

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I know the conversation is being semi-goofy, but all the same, I kinda like that the rules are "unfair". The way it creates more tension in some spots and less (but not zero) in others makes it so that different decisions have different weight to them, and that's a hard thing to pull off in a game. I think it might be genuinely less fun if all the half-slot misses counted the same, even though it would be more balanced.

Edited by Sumo Spiffy

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Indeed, when confronted with a conundrum in sumo fandom one must do what is most sumo.

Consider GTB scoring and a rikishi's promotion/demotion on the banzuke to be analogous, then decide, which of the following is more sumo...

- The ranking/scoring system is unfair to some, they don't get the promotions/points they deserve, so it must be changed.

- If you lost a bout/failed to get points, you didn't take it one bout/GTB selection at a time, and need to gambarize and train harder.

That's one thing I love about rikishi decorum, always blame yourself even if it's somebody else's fault. You're left with no choice but to focus and improve.

Edited by Wakawakawaka

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Another late update, sorry. There were four changes to the top ten ranks after the Kyushu edition of GTB. Those dropping out were Kaito, Cheesofuji, Shift and Kajiyanosho - Kaito had the longest active stint with a streak of 16 basho in green.

Their replacements were one returnee and three newcomers. Kobashi returned to the green ranks for the first time in three years, while BlackPinkMawashi, Shoryuyama and Glacier all made their top ten debut.


Susanoo and Andoreasu became the 9th and 10th players to accumulate 6,000 career points, Susanoo in the 3rd-fastest time of 117 basho.

Pandaazuma became the 36th player to accumulate 4,000 career points, and the 5th-fastest to do so in 78 basho.


Goshobiyama is the 28th player to hold the #1 rank.

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