Aki 2023 discussion (results)

[Sumo Spiffy 523]

I put together a couple of polls, and since they're about the key part of the whole basho, I hope it's ok if I link them here.

#1: What do you want the end of the yusho race to look like?

https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkx5ii1oGCeSqtPXDegB8R7Y3CXK_qnz63W

#2: What do you predict the end of the yusho race will look like?

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxNjTpoh8JcBffg2_CRtDOw_ATLaoBDn3v

It's essentially broken down to Atami clinching, a single playoff between him and either Battle Hamster or Oshi Boy, or a three or four-way playoff.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Sumo Spiffy

[dingo 1,133]

Myogiryuu, Takarafuji and Sadanoumi showing some veteran pride today. Even Aoiyama managed to join them with a fifth win after a hail Mary kotenage. Not sure that will save him from juryo, but I think it's good for makuuchi to have these guys hanging around.

Shodai A+ suddenly showed up today and promptly escorted Asanoyama out. Did Asanoyama do something to piss him off? I have to admit that I wouldn't have guessed this win but props to Shodai for actually showing nice sumo. He even has a shout at kachikoshi, which I also wouldn't have expected a few days ago.

Wow, Takayasu was super careful against Tobizaru but it paid off and he still has a theoretical chance for a yusho tomorrow. Daieisho did some wondrous moves as well, and I suppose Kirishima was just too surprised by it all to think of a quick counter.  

Exactly what I feared happened in Takakeisho vs Hoshoryu. Takakeisho got a pretty good rhythm going but without his massive strength of a few years ago behind the pushes, Hoshoryu was simply too good for his one-sided attack. 

So in the end everyone is waiting for Atamifuji to drop one tomorrow. The yusho is entirely on his hands. Can't wait to see what happens!

[dingo 1,133]

4 hours ago, Hankegami said:

kicking Atamifuji down against Asanoyama also puts him out of the san'yaku soroibumi, which would make up another reason for not putting him up against Hoshoryu (not to mention that Hokuseiho never showed that killer instinct that other rikishi have, so he represents a less dangerous foe for "better not go kadoban" Hoshoryu than yusho contender Atamifuji).

But why would the Kyokai care if Hoshoryu gets his kachikoshi or not? Atamifuji vs Hoshoryu would've been the perfect matchup. It's pretty disappointing they're robbing us of that. 

[Jakusotsu 5,761]

Incentives aside, a 8-6 returning Ozeki with two career yusho appears to be a stronger opponent than a struggling 7-7 rookie, doesn't he?

[Bunbukuchagama 681]

6 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

No, they want Atamifuji to win - they gave him Asanoyama and Hoshoryu simply gets Hokuseiho - again the shimpan show how bad they are: it took well over an hour for them to produce this

I think they planned it in advance (just like in July) and just refused to change anything. 

[dingo 1,133]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Incentives aside, a 8-6 returning Ozeki with two career yusho appears to be a stronger opponent than a struggling 7-7 rookie, doesn't he?

Considering the rookie won the yusho last basho and is desperate to reach kachikoshi and avoid kadoban in his first ozeki basho, I'm not so sure. But there's definitely different ways to approach this and the torikumi makers obviously chose another. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by dingo
Spelling

[nelimw 80]

Let's be real, Hoshoryu v Atamifuji is the match the people wanted to see. The people were robbed. I hope Asanoyama brings his A+ game tomorrow

[Yamanashi 3,690]

So far ...

Mongolian-born, less than ten years in Ozumo (Kirishima, Hoshoryu, Hokuseiho): 25-17

Mongolian-born, more than ten years in Ozumo (Tamawashi, Chiyoshoma, Daishoho): 7-35

[nelimw 80]

Also, the extremely nervous looks Atamifuji was giving before his bout with Takakeisho made me want to see him against Hoshoryu even more. He'd probably just pass out at the stare down 

Edited September 23, 2023 by nelimw

[Asashosakari 18,673]

Honestly, the schedule just looks like they started with the premise of "how can we stack the end of the day with yusho-deciding matches but not upset the normal high-ranker match order" and unsurprisingly ended up with something that achieved that goal but nothing else. Rather annoying because they've shown some willingness but flip things around in the interest of putting high-profile matches into high-profile spots (six months ago, also Hatsu 2019 although it didn't work out there). Would anybody have complained if they had done Hoshoryu-Atamifuji and put that match on last even though Hoshoryu would normally be expected to fight first among the ozeki? (Actually, last isn't even needed; it would just need to be after Takakeisho's match, so second also works.)

I've seen the point made elsewhere that Hokuseiho needed a sanyaku opponent because he hasn't had any at all yet, and that doesn't fly for a potential yusho winner. I broadly agree with that view, but leaving aside that he'd still have had to go through Atamifuji and the winner of Takakeisho-Daieisho in the playoffs, it's not like that required them to go with Hoshoryu-Hokuseiho.

What I'd have liked to see (last 11 matches of the actual schedule on the left, suggestion on the right):

M8w  Hiradoumi (5-9)  - M3w  Tamawashi (2-12)   | M3e  Shodai (7-7)     - M12e Takarafuji (7-7)
M3e  Shodai (7-7)     - M12e Takarafuji (7-7)   | M4w  Ura (8-6)        - M2w  Asanoyama (8-6)
M15e Atamifuji (11-3) - M2w  Asanoyama (8-6)    | M8e  Kotoeko (6-8)    - K1w  Tobizaru (6-8)
M8e  Kotoeko (6-8)    - M1w  Meisei (6-8)       | K1e  Nishikigi (5-9)  - M8w  Hiradoumi (5-9)
M1e  Hokutofuji (8-6) - M2e  Abi (8-6)          | M3w  Tamawashi (2-12) - M1w  Meisei (6-8)
M5e  Gonoyama (8-6)   - K1w  Tobizaru (6-8)     | M1e  Hokutofuji (8-6) - M2e  Abi (8-6)
K1e  Nishikigi (5-9)  - M4w  Ura (8-6)          | S2e  Kotonowaka (8-6) - S1w  Wakamotoharu (9-5)
S2e  Kotonowaka (8-6) - S1w  Wakamotoharu (9-5) | S1e  Daieisho (10-4)  - M11w Hokuseiho (10-4)
M11w Hokuseiho (10-4) - O2w  Hoshoryu (7-7)     | M7e  Takayasu (10-4)  - O1w  Takakeisho (10-4)
S1e  Daieisho (10-4)  - O1w  Takakeisho (10-4)  | O1e  Kirishima (8-6)  - M5e  Gonoyama (8-6)
O1e  Kirishima (8-6)  - M7e  Takayasu (10-4)    | M15e Atamifuji (11-3) - O2w  Hoshoryu (7-7)

[maglor 122]

3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Incentives aside, a 8-6 returning Ozeki with two career yusho appears to be a stronger opponent than a struggling 7-7 rookie, doesn't he?

Hoshoryu is struggling at 7-7 while Kiri is not because he's 8-6? Hoshoryu is a rookie while Kiri is an experienced veteran of two Ozeki basho? Come on.

 

I also wouldn't trust an 8-6 Ozeki further than I could throw him(not very far)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=2005-2015&day=15&rank1=O&wins1=8-9&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

 

[Hoshotakamoto 256]

4 minutes ago, maglor said:

Hoshoryu is struggling at 7-7 while Kiri is not because he's 8-6? Hoshoryu is a rookie while Kiri is an experienced veteran of two Ozeki basho? Come on.

 

I also wouldn't trust an 8-6 Ozeki further than I could throw him(not very far)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=2005-2015&day=15&rank1=O&wins1=8-9&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

 

I think he was referring to Asanoyama instead of Kirishima but it's still confusing because Asa/Kiri/Hoshoryu all have 1 yusho a piece.

[Hoshotakamoto 256]

On 21/09/2023 at 04:23, MrGrumpyGills said:

Hokuseihō has officially taken over the role of the Leaning Tower of Sumo from Ichinojō. I'm probably alone with this, but excessive leaning is one of the most annoying things in sumo to me, it just seems so lazy wearing down your opponent like that

I applaud every effort by Hokuseiho to avoid injury and extend his career, at least until he hits Yokozuna.

[Sumo Spiffy 523]

In fairness to Hokuseiho, halfway into the basho, I was already planning how I was going to roast him to a crisp. But now he's actually doing stuff! It makes things so hard!

[Jakusotsu 5,761]

1 hour ago, Hoshotakamoto said:

I think he was referring to Asanoyama instead of Kirishima but it's still confusing because Asa/Kiri/Hoshoryu all have 1 yusho a piece.

Oops, my bad. Somehow my fuzzy mind recorded another yusho for Asanoyama that apparently never happened.

Next you will tell me that Abi got one instead, but c'mon!

[Octofuji 322]

1 hour ago, maglor said:

Hoshoryu is struggling at 7-7 while Kiri is not because he's 8-6? Hoshoryu is a rookie while Kiri is an experienced veteran of two Ozeki basho? Come on.

 

I also wouldn't trust an 8-6 Ozeki further than I could throw him(not very far)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=2005-2015&day=15&rank1=O&wins1=8-9&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

 

For Kisenosato to go kyujo seems a strange move in view of all those other outcomes

[Octofuji 322]

3 hours ago, nelimw said:

Let's be real, Hoshoryu v Atamifuji is the match the people wanted to see. The people were robbed. I hope Asanoyama brings his A+ game tomorrow

He does have some incentive in that if he wins he has a good chance of making komusubi and starting an Ozeki run. Asanoyama did start the basho with his A-game, I think he's got a good chance tomorrow.

I do agree though, I would have preferred to see Hoshoryu v Atamifuji.

[Akinomaki 39,585]

48 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

another yusho for Asanoyama that apparently never happened.

I thought  you did count the recent juryo yusho as the 2nd

[Kishinoyama 582]

1 hour ago, Octofuji said:

For Kisenosato to go kyujo seems a strange move in view of all those other outcomes

Check out the above post from 2014 made by Akinomaki regarding Kisenosato and that day 15 kyujo.

[Sakura 1,465]

2 hours ago, maglor said:

Hoshoryu is struggling at 7-7 while Kiri is not because he's 8-6? Hoshoryu is a rookie while Kiri is an experienced veteran of two Ozeki basho? Come on.

 

I also wouldn't trust an 8-6 Ozeki further than I could throw him(not very far)

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=2005-2015&day=15&rank1=O&wins1=8-9&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

 

Why does you query stop in 2015?

Whilst most Ozeki  who already have KK in a larger timeframe (and with a greater win range) don't win, not every Ozeki gives up trying.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&year=1980-now&day=15&rank1=O&wins1=8-10&winsopt1=1&rank2=O&wins2=7&winsopt2=1

[Octofuji 322]

32 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

Check out the above post from 2014 made by Akinomaki regarding Kisenosato and that day 15 kyujo.

Thank you :). I thought it must have been a serious injury for him to pass up such a good chance of getting his kachikoshi.

 

[Akinomaki 39,585]

My sansho guess:

- Kanto-sho

Atamifuji

Takayasu with a win

Hokuseiho with a win

- Shukun-sho

Atamifuji with a win

- Gino-sho

Daieisho

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

Who I would like to see win in descending order: Hokuseiho, Daieisho, Atamifuji, Takayasu, Takakeisho.

Who I think will win in descending order: Atamifuji, Daieisho, Takakeisho, Takayasu, Hokuseiho

[Reonito 1,308]

44 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

My sansho guess:

- Kanto-sho

Atamifuji

Takayasu with a win

Hokuseiho with a win

- Shukun-sho

Atamifuji with a win

- Gino-sho

Daieisho

I guess Midorifuji already got a gino-sho for winning 5 bouts by katasukashi...

[Gurowake 3,886]

32 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Who I would like to see win in descending order: Hokuseiho, Daieisho, Atamifuji, Takayasu, Takakeisho.

Hokuseiho would be the first yusho winner to start 2-4, beating out Harumafuji's 2-3 from the last time 4 losses was the minimum.