Kaito 275 Posted July 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said: There are many to come, I'm sure. Congrats, @Kaito ! The best part is that my streak is still going from last basho. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taliesin 68 Posted July 18, 2023 And well-deserved top position on the ranking. Congrats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 18, 2023 9 hours ago, Jakusotsu said: There are many to come, I'm sure. Who knows, this might have been my best chance... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted July 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: Who knows, this might have been my best chance... For Chain Gang? Possibly, I won't deny that. You came closer than the vast majority of players ever did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balon 4 Posted July 18, 2023 10 hours ago, Jakusotsu said: Excellent bet by @Balon in Odd! (...although he got lucky with a veeeery dubious shinpan call for Takanosho/Daishoho...) sometimes you just have to get lucky I suppose.. although I wasn't really expecting Kotonowaka to actually win, since I am rooting for Hoshoryu to get his first yusho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotononami 86 Posted July 20, 2023 The toughest way to lose Bout 44 - Kotononami (M14W) 10 [8-4] Makiotoshi Kaito (M1W) 10 [9-3] Kaito wins by virtue of being the higher ranked rikishi. Kotononami (M14W) 10 (Submitted by Kotononami at 20 Jul, 2023 03:26 AM JST) 4 Hokuseiho [-] 3 Asanoyama [+] 3 Kirishima [+] 2 Hakuoho [+] 2 Gonoyama [+] Bench: Daieisho [-] Kotonowaka [+] Endo [-] Takayasu [-] Terunofuji [-] - vs - Kaito (M1W) 10 (Submitted by Kaito at 20 Jul, 2023 05:26 AM JST) 4 Hoshoryu [-] 3 Gonoyama [+] 3 Hakuoho [+] 2 Asanoyama [+] 2 Kirishima [+] Bench: Endo [-] Kotonowaka [+] Kotoshoho [-] Takayasu [-] Terunofuji [-] 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kotononami said: The toughest way to lose Bout 44 - Kotononami (M14W) 10 [8-4] Makiotoshi Kaito (M1W) 10 [9-3] Kaito wins by virtue of being the higher ranked rikishi. Kotononami (M14W) 10 (Submitted by Kotononami at 20 Jul, 2023 03:26 AM JST) 4 Hokuseiho [-] 3 Asanoyama [+] 3 Kirishima [+] 2 Hakuoho [+] 2 Gonoyama [+] Bench: Daieisho [-] Kotonowaka [+] Endo [-] Takayasu [-] Terunofuji [-] - vs - Kaito (M1W) 10 (Submitted by Kaito at 20 Jul, 2023 05:26 AM JST) 4 Hoshoryu [-] 3 Gonoyama [+] 3 Hakuoho [+] 2 Asanoyama [+] 2 Kirishima [+] Bench: Endo [-] Kotonowaka [+] Kotoshoho [-] Takayasu [-] Terunofuji [-] The infamous "Doitsuyama rule"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted July 20, 2023 On 18/07/2023 at 14:19, Kaito said: The best part is that my streak is still going from last basho. I was hoping you'll keep that streak going to 2032 and beyond. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted July 21, 2023 Unpopular take: The Doitsuyama Rule is the best rule in bench Sumo! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted July 21, 2023 On 18/07/2023 at 21:19, Kaito said: The best part is that my streak is still going from last basho. This is an incredible record. I was really hoping you would make it to day 15 again. Amazing! Congrats! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Pandaazuma said: Unpopular take: The Doitsuyama Rule is the best rule in bench Sumo! Unpopular indeed. It would be difficult to find another existing tie-breaker rule as anti-meritocratic as this one. Anything is better than it, including a simple coin-toss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Athenayama 953 Posted July 21, 2023 @Pandaazuma is one of the most sarcastic people here (and I love that). And he has such a level that he even fooled me with this one. I'm still not sure if he meant what he wrote or if he was just kidding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted July 21, 2023 35 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: It would be difficult to find another existing tie-breaker rule as anti-meritocratic as this one. How so? Banzuke rank is the pinnacle of meritocracy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said: How so? Banzuke rank is the pinnacle of meritocracy. Banzuke favours old over new, veterans over upstarts, insiders over outsiders - it is patriarchal and anti-meritocratic by definition. Yes, you earned your rank - but you did it in the past, which should not influence the outcome of a specific bout happening here and now. Your opponent should not be directly penalized for joining the game later, he is penalized enough by having to start at the bottom of the lowest division - which is actually fine and logical, but doesn't need to be rubbed in so blatantly in case of a tie-breaker. Imagine if ozumo worked the same way and every monoii was decided based on rank - would you like that? I don't know of another game that would use such a rule. Edited July 21, 2023 by Bunbukuchagama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted July 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: Banzuke favours old over new, veterans over upstarts, insiders over outsiders - it is patriarchal and anti-meritocratic by definition. Yes, you earned your rank - but you did it in the past, which should not influence the outcome of a specific bout happening here and now. Your opponent should not be directly penalized for joining the game later, he is penalized enough by having to start at the bottom of the lowest division - which is actually fine and logical, but doesn't need to be rubbed in so blatantly in case of a tie-breaker. Imagine if ozumo worked the same way and every monoii was decided based on rank - would you like that? I don't know of another game that would use such a rule. Ozumo is Ozumo. It doesn't follow any bullshit modern rules. It is not interested in 'liberal' bullshit. It has no interest in Western 'values'. You earn your rank..and that's the end of it. Everything else is just talk. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said: Ozumo is Ozumo. It doesn't follow any bullshit modern rules. It is not interested in 'liberal' bullshit. It has no interest in Western 'values'. You earn your rank..and that's the end of it. Everything else is just talk. You are clearly being sarcastic. Is Jakusotsu too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wamahada 49 Posted July 21, 2023 This is not a serious discussion about the Doitsuyama-rule, isn‘t it? We are talking about a game!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 21, 2023 Just now, Wamahada said: This is not a serious discussion about the Doitsuyama-rule, isn‘t it? We are talking about a game!!! There is nothing more serious than DA GAME. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted July 21, 2023 28 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: Banzuke favours old over new, veterans over upstarts, insiders over outsiders - it is patriarchal and anti-meritocratic by definition. Yes, you earned your rank - but you did it in the past, which should not influence the outcome of a specific bout happening here and now. Your opponent should not be directly penalized for joining the game later, he is penalized enough by having to start at the bottom of the lowest division - which is actually fine and logical, but doesn't need to be rubbed in so blatantly in case of a tie-breaker. A strange misconception. You make it sound like the longer you play, the higher your rank - which most obviously is *not* the case. Just have a look at the high number of veterans trying to escape Makushita hell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Jakusotsu said: A strange misconception. You make it sound like the longer you play, the higher your rank - which most obviously is *not* the case. Just have a look at the high number of veterans trying to escape Makushita hell. Seems to work for me so far. In any case, playing longer gives you a chance to climb higher. In the beginning of the basho, I discovered that another player in my division had a team identical to mine. We both started well, and the possibility of crossing paths looked real for a while, so, I thought "boy, this might get awkward". And yes, he is way higher on the banzuke, so, there was a real chance I could end up getting penalized for not rising 20 or so spots in a single basho. And what if that potential bout ended up deciding the fate of the yusho or even (heavens forbid) ICF? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted July 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: Seems to work for me so far. In any case, playing longer gives you a chance to climb higher. In the beginning of the basho, I discovered that another player in my division had a team identical to mine. We both started well, and the possibility of crossing paths looked real for a while, so, I thought "boy, this might get awkward". And yes, he is way higher on the banzuke, so, there was a real chance I could end up getting penalized for not rising 20 or so spots in a single basho. And what if that potential bout ended up deciding the fate of the yusho or even (heavens forbid) ICF? You are taking things far too seriously! Most of the gamers here have been playing against each other for decades. We all respect each other and all know that anyone is capable of winning the Masters or the World Championship. I support anyone who is doing well and I want them to succeed. There is no ill will between players that I know of. So please stop worrying about people trying to cheat...we just don't do that here in any way whatsoever. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 507 Posted July 21, 2023 Please do not forget that even as a beginner you may soon find yourself in the top ranks of Makushita and most of your daily aites will be ranked lower. Best chance to win via Doitsuyama rule already then. Once you have conquered Juryo it is the same procedure again. So not only veterans have an advantage but everyone. Ganzohnesushi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,815 Posted July 21, 2023 By the way, I invite you to make a guess before clicking the spoiler button. So far, there have been 120,294 bouts in the history of Bench Sumo. How many of those have been decided by Doitsuyama Rule? Spoiler 78 - that's less than 0.065% - not even a breeze in a teacup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 688 Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Pandaazuma said: You are taking things far too seriously! Most of the gamers here have been playing against each other for decades. We all respect each other and all know that anyone is capable of winning the Masters or the World Championship. I support anyone who is doing well and I want them to succeed. There is no ill will between players that I know of. So please stop worrying about people trying to cheat...we just don't do that here in any way whatsoever. Who said anything about cheating? We are discussing an official rule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
