Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[RabidJohn 1,663]

I can appreciate a good stare-down, but that wasn't a good one - and it should never continue after the bout! I went right off Hoshoryu today.

[Morty 1,480]

47 minutes ago, Kujo said:

 

I was hoping Gonoyama would knock the smug look off Hoshoryu's face. 

So was I

[Koorifuu 886]

Gonoyama got a mountain of Gonos (the proverbial Kintamayama), going for a staredown with Hoshoryu of all people. It just sealed the deal, despite the dubious tachiai.

I might've commented this before, but that is the single reason why I think Hoshoryu is best positioned for a successful rope as it stands.

He might be a very nice guy outside the dohyo, but at the moment, nobody else is even close to exhuding that pre-bout presence that silently yells to his opponent, "this is not going to end well for you". It's reminiscent of his uncle, and even Hakuho, even if the skills to back it up aren't quite there yet.

EDIT: Hah, I'd posted this before reading the most recent comments here, seems like I'm in the minority.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Yangnomazuma 77]

1 hour ago, Eskbibs said:

I thought there must have been an incident during the jungyo or during training or something, as I recall things like this happening as a result of such incidents. But I also don't remember seeing anything of the sort reported here, so...who knows. Otherwise Gonoyama seems like a very random target for such a staredown.

I think it may fall, at least at some level, in the "this guy is going to be a fixture at the top of the banzuke soon so let's make sure he knows who the alpha dog is" category.  That said, I also have the same feeling that there was a "thing" that happened when we weren't looking.

 

[since_94 650]

22 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I can appreciate a good stare-down, but that wasn't a good one - and it should never continue after the bout! I went right off Hoshoryu today.

Signed. Came across as a complete tool, he did. Off putting for sure.

[Godango 956]

7 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Gonoyama got a mountain of Gonos (the proverbial Kintamayama), going for a staredown with Hoshoryu of all people. It just sealed the deal, despite the dubious tachiai.

I might've commented this before, but that is the single reason why I think Hoshoryu is best positioned for a successful rope as it stands.

He might be a very nice guy outside the dohyo, but at the moment, nobody else is even close to exhuding that pre-bout presence that silently yells to his opponent, "this is not going to end well for you". It's reminiscent of his uncle, and even Hakuho, even if the skills to back it up aren't quite there yet.

EDIT: Hah, I'd posted this before reading the most recent comments here, seems like I'm in the minority.

I'm with you. I loved the staredown. I loved the dominance. I loved the look afterwards. 

That was an ozeki letting an up-and-comer know who's show it is. I understand the opposing viewpoint and if Hoshoryu wasn't such a delight off the dohyo I'd probably agree, but he puts the game face in and is on means business in the dohyo. Love it. 

[since_94 650]

1 hour ago, Kujo said:

It's good to see that Atamifuji's inexperience and for better words "wake up call" in the last basho doesn't seem to have affected him. I kind of looked at him like Tokushoryu's run to his basho, kind of a once in a lifetime thing. Looks like Atamifuji may have some skills after all :-} 

I was hoping Gonoyama would knock the smug look off Hoshoryu's face. 

Likewise was hoping for a swift dose of comeuppance, but it wasn’t to be. Not today, anyway.

[Miyam 6]

Hoshoryu was demanding respect from an up-and-coming rikishi, he might have gone a tad overboard with it but I don't find his attitude particularly distasteful. Been watching sumo for a while now, and you'll occasionally see an ozeki or a yokozuna demanding respect from their opponent by refusing to initiate the tachiai until their opponent put both fists on the ground first.

Again, might have been a tad overboard with the look after the match, but I totally understand and appreciate an ozeki demanding respect from a young up-and-comer maegashira.

[Jakusotsu 5,813]

25 minutes ago, Godango said:

That was an ozeki letting an up-and-comer know who's show it is.

Stubbornly refusing to put your hands down indefinitely? That's not dominance, that's arrogance and disrespect.

[Miyam 6]

5 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Stubbornly refusing to put your hands down indefinitely? That's not dominance, that's arrogance and disrespect.

Other side of the coin would be, why did Gonoyama stubbornly refuse to put both fists down first? He eventually did it so he understood the message at some point. Again, Hoshoryu might have gone a bit overboard with it, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with an ozeki demanding respect from a young upstart.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Miyam

[Kujo 116]

I like the stare downs that happen after the timekeeper signals jikan desu before they go back to the salt bucket for the last time. The delay or this time, the complete refusal to put even one hand down at the shikiri-sen is BS. If his record was in the high double digits as an ozeki (or had a few more basho under his belt) I could maybe see the attitude. His best record as an ozeki is 8-7. Right now his attitude is way above his game.

[Kujo 116]

2 minutes ago, Miyam said:

Other side of the coin would be, why did Gonoyama stubbornly refuse to put both fists down first? He eventually did it so he understood the message at some point. Again, Hoshoryu might have gone a bit overboard with it, but I don't see anything inherently wrong in an ozeki demanding respect from a young upstart.

Why would Gonoyama have to put both hands down before Hoshoryu engaged at all? As far as I know there is no rule stating the lower ranked rikishi must put down both hands before the higher ranked one.

[Miyam 6]

15 minutes ago, Miyam said:

you'll occasionally see an ozeki or a yokozuna demanding respect from their opponent by refusing to initiate the tachiai until their opponent put both fists on the ground first.

There is no rule for it indeed, it's just something that will happen occasionally at the initiative of the yokozuna or the ozeki.

11 minutes ago, Kujo said:

If his record was in the high double digits as an ozeki (or had a few more basho under his belt) I could maybe see the attitude. His best record as an ozeki is 8-7. Right now his attitude is way above his game.

That is a fair point.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Miyam

[dingo 1,160]

Initially I thought I might have to take back my previous words about Oonosato. Today's loss was way too easy. Though on the other hand he still has time to gather experience and learn how to counter pulling effectively.

Ichiyamamoto seems keen to hang out in lower makuuchi where he can demolish the crowd until he can get that makujiri yusho.

Midorifuji's henka was as technically perfect as you can get. Dunno if he really needed to resort to one at this point in the basho, but at least he did it well.

After his first impressive win Abi has been beaten in tachiai by all other opponents. Seeing as his sumo relies on getting quickly out of tachiai and in position for his nodowa, it's not looking very good at the moment.

Daieisho's onesidedness got totally exploited Kotonowaka. When it works for Daieisho, it works well but Kotonowaka is slowly evolving into a rikishi who can absorb almost every straight push. I've said it before, but I see glimpses of Kisenosato peeking through time to time.

Takakeisho had a well planned strategy against Takayasu and executed it perfectly. But like others have mentioned it's still quite clear he wants to safeguard his neck so he always goes hands first. I'm a bit worried how long he will last since it seems he's one headbutt away from kyujo. 

That was an epic staredown between Gounoyama and Hoshoryuu. Kudos to Gounoyama for not backing out for a while, but Hoshoryuu is the current makuuchi niramiai master. Looked like he could squat there scowling forever. Some juicy bouts to come between them in the coming years. In fact, there's some great rivalries in makuuchi again, like Takakeisho vs Kotonowaka as well. 

[junsan 170]

Gonoyama should've put his fists down for OZEKI Hoshoryu. While I like the attitude (Hakuoho has it as well) it has to be backed up by a WIN.

[Tochinofuji 372]

In keeping with comments above, I like a good staredown before the final return to the salt bucket, followed by a normal and spirited tachiai. Today's niramiai with Gonoyama and Hoshoryu came off as more petulant to me than a display of dominant attitude by Hoshoryu. Hoshoryu didn't win any points from me by initiating the whole thing, but Gonoyama did for not backing down.

Regardless, will make seeing any match ups between them in the future all the more fun to watch. So long as Hoshoryu doesn't make it a regular shtick, it made for an interesting tail-end for the day at least! 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Tochinofuji
Spelling error: changed "much ups" to "match ups"

[Fashiritētā 169]

Being a Hoshoryu fan, i agree with @Koorifuu , Hoshoryu has the attitude to take him to Yokozuna. Was able to get some Ritz with my sandwich during the staredown.

[Koorifuu 886]

14 minutes ago, junsan said:

Gonoyama should've put his fists down for OZEKI Hoshoryu. While I like the attitude (Hakuoho has it as well) it has to be backed up by a WIN.

Ironically, Hoshoryu played the exact same mind games / intimidatory face against Hakuoho on Nagoya's senshuraku.

The difference is that Hakuoho looked way more scared of him than Gonoyama did, and promptly put both his hands down after the first "recess", so Hoshoryu didn't take long to charge him.

Quite frankly, this is not all that uncommon at all. The major difference is that Gonoyama, full credit to him, took on the challenge for far longer than most.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Bakayokozuna 52]

Talking about potential bad blood ... what about that Akua bout? I think there even was a closed fist punch in the middle

Maybe after mostly failing with Judo moves he just wants to try Boxing skills?if we are lucky maybe Capoeira is next 

[Koorifuu 886]

4 minutes ago, Bakayokozuna said:

Talking about potential bad blood ... what about that Akua bout? I think there even was a closed fist punch in the middle

Maybe after mostly failing with Judo moves he just wants to try Boxing skills?if we are lucky maybe Capoeira is next 

Akua just went for a plain assault on Shiden. It'd have amounted to battery, had it happened outside the dohyo!

Edited November 16, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Bakayokozuna 52]

1 minute ago, Koorifuu said:

Akua just went for a plain assault on Shiden. It'd have amounted to battery, had it happened outside the dohyo!

For me, the good news on this is that he lost the bout. 

[Rocks 1,807]

37 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Stubbornly refusing to put your hands down indefinitely? That's not dominance, that's arrogance and disrespect.

Agree. If Hoshoryu had a problem then stand up. Don't make  the audience wait around for a ridiculously long time with nothing happening. 

This was more petulance .than power.

[since_94 650]

Yeah, Akua went full ape. That was vicious. There’s something dislikable about him

[lackmaker 432]

Hoshoryu is sumo Marmite.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Tsushimanada's win today was hilarious. Not often I laugh out loud at a sumo bout!