Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[Octofuji 327]

19 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

To go for a slightly forced analogy in sports with a different format: You're looking forward to the #1 and #2 seeds meeting in the tournament final, but one of them gets upset by a lower-ranked player on the way. Are you going to complain that the seeding procedure made it impossible for them to meet in an earlier round, where they wouldn't have needed to win so many other matches first?

My own forced analogy would have been a football league where Liverpool and Man City don't meet one season, which would be unthinkable. But I know sumo isn't really a league and that spectacle often plays second fiddle to tradition.

When I first started following sumo I remember wishing that Hakuho and Kakuryu would meet on Day 1 as it was the only way I was ever going to see them together.

Regardless of all that I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Kirishima at his best (yet). The training reports just before the basho were promising and for once were actually reflected in the basho.

 

[RabidJohn 1,663]

I've just noticed that all the yusho in 2023 were won by yokozuna, ozeki, or about-to-become ozeki. 

Feels like normal service has snuck up on us.

[Yamanashi 3,723]

 

8 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

And IYM got softballed to 11 wins. 

Let's see how hard he gets smacked down next time.

To heck with that stuff, Abi and Ichiyamamoto will be at ~M2 and M4 next basho.  The only way to keep them from meeting is an emergency heya merger (and that would be a little too obvious, n'est-ce pas?)

[dingo 1,159]

Oonosato missed his chance to get the juryo yusho. If everything goes well, he might not have a chance to get one for a long time.

Aoiyama also managed to get his crucial final day kachikoshi and secure a return to makuuchi. Not sure he'll stay there too long though.

[Reonito 1,335]

17 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

 

To heck with that stuff, Abi and Ichiyamamoto will be at ~M2 and M4 next basho.  The only way to keep them from meeting is an emergency heya merger (and that would be a little too obvious, n'est-ce pas?)

I don't think Ichi will be in the joi

[Asashosakari 18,783]

2 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I don't think Ichi will be in the joi

Yeah, I can't see any realistic scenario that could possibly have him go higher than M6w.

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

3 minutes ago, dingo said:

Oonosato missed his chance to get the juryo yusho. If everything goes well, he might not have a chance to get one for a long time.

Yeah. Who would have thunk he's still without a yusho after four basho. Might still take some time for his first.

[Rocks 1,807]

Congrats to Kirishima on a well earned Yusho. 

Maybe I'm just clueless but isn't this the first basho in a very long time without a Kokonoe rikishi in makuuchi? 

[Akinomaki 39,755]

7 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

It was the 100th yusho for a rikishi from Mongolia, Hokkaido is top as yusho shusshin with 120 o

Sponichi in the next article repeats first the 2nd to Hokkaido's 120 top and later gives Aomori as the top with 120 yusho o

The query gives 37 yusho for Aomori http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&shusshin=3&form1_y=on&form1_m=on

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

46 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

50 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I don't think Ichi will be in the joi

Yeah, I can't see any realistic scenario that could possibly have him go higher than M6w.

I'm thinking M6 or M7, which can be a sweet spot just outside jo'i. That might not be the case in January where Ichi may be duelling with the likes of Hokutofuji, Asanoyama, Tamawashi, Kinbozan, Shonanoumi, Mitakeumi et al in the first week. The middle ranks look likely to be stacked with talent.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Tigerboy1966
ce

[Sumo Spiffy 535]

54 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Congrats to Kirishima on a well earned Yusho. 

Maybe I'm just clueless but isn't this the first basho in a very long time without a Kokonoe rikishi in makuuchi? 

Y'know, you got me thinking about the general Chiyobiquity in sumo, so I took a quick look... it's possible I missed something, but five minutes of query poking says the last time there were no Chiyos in makuuchi was November of 2011. How good of a run is twelve years for a stable?

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about the question, I suppose it must not be amazing considering there are individuals who last longer than that, and they represent their stables. But given how many stables it seems never or rarely produce sekitori at all, it still seems pretty good on the whole...?

Edited November 26, 2023 by Sumo Spiffy

[Asashosakari 18,783]

The Kokonoe thing made the rounds on here a short while ago, see here and subsequent comments. (TL;DR There were short-ish breaks in representation that are frequently forgotten.)

Other heya streaks were brought up by the press (via Akinomaki here) when the most recent banzuke came out.

[Rocks 1,807]

23 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Y'know, you got me thinking about the general Chiyobiquity in sumo, so I took a quick look... it's possible I missed something, but five minutes of query poking says the last time there were no Chiyos in makuuchi was November of 2011. How good of a run is twelve years for a stable?

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about the question, I suppose it must not be amazing considering there are individuals who last longer than that, and they represent their stables. But given how many stables it seems never or rarely produce sekitori at all, it still seems pretty good on the whole...?

Yeah, I guess their record isn't that special but considering there seemed to be so many I though it was much longer.

[Sumo Spiffy 535]

10 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Yeah, I guess their record isn't that special but considering there seemed to be so many I though it was much longer.

Before that, there was a couple year gap after Chiyotaikai's retirement, but he was up there for, like, twelve years by himself. Throw in a couple yokozuna before that and they've had a presence, it just didn't hold every single basho.

[Tochinofuji 372]

1 hour ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Y'know, you got me thinking about the general Chiyobiquity in sumo, so I took a quick look... it's possible I missed something, but five minutes of query poking says the last time there were no Chiyos in makuuchi was November of 2011. How good of a run is twelve years for a stable?

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about the question, I suppose it must not be amazing considering there are individuals who last longer than that, and they represent their stables. But given how many stables it seems never or rarely produce sekitori at all, it still seems pretty good on the whole...?

I won't lie, the word "Chiyobiquity" that you just coined absolutely knocked it out of the park for me. Thank you for that! 

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

This is the first calendar year since 2017 that a hiramaku has not won the yusho, which means for five consecutive years you had a good chance. Last year alone there were three hiramaku yusho.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

I don't think Ichi will be in the joi

M7

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

5 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

[NOTE: this is unverified speculation]

After Ichiyamamoto's loss on day 10 (to go 8-2), he met S Daieisho, who beat him (so now 8-3); maybe they thought he'd been tamped down enough to keep him away from the Yusho.

They sent him back down even before they knew that Daieisho beat him. 

Like they said "this is IYM, he is going to collapse, not a threat".

[Yamanashi 3,723]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

I don't think Ichi will be in the joi

Sorry, I checked the last example of M14w 11-4, and it was M4; of the other 7 examples in history, 6 ended up at M6.  M14e would have been luckier: Tobizaru did it in 9/2020.

Incidentally, M2 has faced M4 18 times in the last two years, and M2 vs M5 16 times, but M2 vs M6 only 9 times.

[Kotomiyama 165]

Will a senshuraku makekoshi be enough to keep Tomokaze in Makuuchi? That's all that matters to me now.

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

Just now, Kotomiyama said:

Will a senshuraku makekoshi be enough to keep Tomokaze in Makuuchi? That's all that matters to me now.

Yeah he'll be fine. The man with the magic sock will be in there at M15 and good luck to him.

[Yamanashi 3,723]

It's possible for Kitaharima to fall in the Ms2-Ms4 range next January.  Amazingly, he reached M2 for the first time in the Hatsu 2011 basho.  The Yokozuna was Hakuho; Kaio, Baruto, Kotooshu and Harumafuji were the Ozeki; Sekiwake were Kisenosato and Kotoshogiku; Komosubi were Tochiozan and Kakuryu.

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

5 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

It's possible for Kitaharima to fall in the Ms2-Ms4 range next January.  Amazingly, he reached M2 for the first time in the Hatsu 2011 basho.  The Yokozuna was Hakuho; Kaio, Baruto, Kotooshu and Harumafuji were the Ozeki; Sekiwake were Kisenosato and Kotoshogiku; Komosubi were Tochiozan and Kakuryu.

Whippersnapper! The first time Tamawashi  was Ms2, we still had Kaio, Chiyotaikai, Kotomitsuki and Yokozuna Asashoryu!

[bettega 427]

Only two Sekiwake next basho. How queer 

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

3 hours ago, Tochinofuji said:

I won't lie, the word "Chiyobiquity" that you just coined absolutely knocked it out of the park for me. Thank you for that! 

Right now it's Isegahamabeya's world, and we're just living in it.