Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[just_some_guy 248]

3 hours ago, Morty said:

I'm a bit annoyed at Hokoseiho after that bout. He's 11 inches taller and outweighs Midorifuji by 60kg yet he didn't do bugger all in that bout. The smaller man did all the attacking, the larger man showed zero initiative. I get that it's a legitimate tactic to just lean on your opponent and wait for them to make a mistake, but it feels like if you are that much bigger you should at least do something positive to win the bout. With that size difference you are almost obligated to attack in some way. A pretty pathetic performance for mine.

Pretty much Hokuseiho's usual sumo. At risk of being elected president of the Hokuseiho Anti-Fan Club, if he were Hakuoho's height he never would've cleared Sandanme.

[rokudenashi 290]

Chiyoshōma with the most predictable henka I’ve seen since… whenever it was he last pulled one

[Yarimotsu 515]

12 minutes ago, just_some_guy said:

Pretty much Hokuseiho's usual sumo. At risk of being elected president of the Hokuseiho Anti-Fan Club, if he were Hakuoho's height he never would've cleared Sandanme.

To quote one of the best one-liners on the internet, if my grandmother had wheels she would've been a bike

[Benevolance 2,462]

8 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Takakeisho's Yokozuna run is on life support.

Based on his history, the odds were always against, but I think it's a tad early to stick a fork in him. He's one win back from the trio of leaders, and even a weak yusho like last time would net him the promotion.

Edit: This is not to be misconstrued as an endorsement of Takakeisho! 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Benevolance

[Tigerboy1966 1,374]

54 minutes ago, just_some_guy said:

4 hours ago, Morty said:

I'm a bit annoyed at Hokoseiho after that bout. He's 11 inches taller and outweighs Midorifuji by 60kg yet he didn't do bugger all in that bout. The smaller man did all the attacking, the larger man showed zero initiative. I get that it's a legitimate tactic to just lean on your opponent and wait for them to make a mistake, but it feels like if you are that much bigger you should at least do something positive to win the bout. With that size difference you are almost obligated to attack in some way. A pretty pathetic performance for mine.

Pretty much Hokuseiho's usual sumo. At risk of being elected president of the Hokuseiho Anti-Fan Club, if he were Hakuoho's height he never would've cleared Sandanme.

And if Hahuoho was the same height as Warwick Davis he would never have entered sumo.

You play the hand you're dealt.

You can't expect a man with Hokuseiho's physique to go hopping around the ring like a bunny rabbit on cheap speed.

[Fashiritētā 154]

Gonoyama in beast mode. 2 Ozeki scalps.

[sumojoann 1,254]

5 hours ago, Tochinofuji said:

Interesting, I've always thought Midorifuji came across as quite lighthearted and likeable! The plucky master of the katasukashi has always been a welcome addition to makuuchi in my books. Just goes to show everyone has their own take on things I guess! 

I definitely agree.  He strikes me as quiet, unassuming, friendly and likeable away from the dohyo, (but of course fearless once he steps onto it).  I'll see if I can find a particular Youtube video that supports my opinion.  It was filmed at the Oct 2022 Sumo Fan Appreciation Festival in Tokyo.  In this video, a large number of Makuuchi rikishi were called to the stage and introduced one-by-one.  The rikishi that were already on the stage generally maintained neutral expressions on their faces as the newly-introduced ones passed by them.  However, it was very interesting to see some warm smiles(or lack thereof) shown by the rikishi that were already on the stage towards some of the rikishi that were being introduced.  EDIT TO ADD VIDEO, make corrections and add comments.  The picture quality is very poor but in watching the video again, I noticed that the following rikishi received warm smiles --- Takanosho, Nishikigi, Midorifuji, Tobizaru and Shodai (although it's possible they were laughing at Shodai!).  The Makuuchi rikishi became quite stone-faced when the following rikishi were introduced --- Endo, Ura, Meisei, Abi and especially Takakeisho.  And to a certain extent Terunofuji.

These are just my impressions.  Your opinions might differ.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by sumojoann
Make corrections --- add video

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

Based on his history, the odds were always against, but I think it's a tad early to stick a fork in him. He's one win back from the trio of leaders, and even a weak yusho like last time would net him the promotion.

Edit: This is not to be misconstrued as an endorsement of Takakeisho! 

That's why I said "on life support" instead of "dead". 

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

43 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

You can't expect a man with Hokuseiho's physique to go hopping around the ring like a bunny rabbit on cheap speed.

We remember Akebono... He wasn't a bunny, but still.

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

5 hours ago, Morty said:

I'm a bit annoyed at Hokoseiho after that bout. He's 11 inches taller and outweighs Midorifuji by 60kg yet he didn't do bugger all in that bout. The smaller man did all the attacking, the larger man showed zero initiative. I get that it's a legitimate tactic to just lean on your opponent and wait for them to make a mistake, but it feels like if you are that much bigger you should at least do something positive to win the bout. With that size difference you are almost obligated to attack in some way. A pretty pathetic performance for mine.

Still, nobody answered my question: why did Midorifuji not try to grab that nice huge juicy leg that was right in front of his nose for so many minutes?

[Reonito 1,296]

31 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

I definitely agree.  He strikes me as quiet, unassuming, friendly and likeable away from the dohyo, (but of course fearless once he steps onto it).  I'll see if I can find a particular Youtube video that supports my opinion.  It was filmed at the Oct 2022 Fan Appreciation Event in Tokyo (I believe it was 2022).  In this video, a large number of Makuuchi rikishi were called to the stage and introduced one-by-one and were applauded by the rikishi that were already seated in chairs on the stage.  It was very interesting to see the enthusiasm (or lack thereof) shown by the rikishi that were already on the stage towards the rikishi that were being introduced.  At first, I didn't pay very much attention to it, but I recall when Midorifuji was introduced, he got a VERY enthusiastic reception.  He smiled shyly and took his seat.  If my memory is correct, there was at least one rikishi who appeared to be disliked by some of the others.  Dang, I can't remember who that was!  I'll look for the video.

From everything I've seen, Midorifuji seems like an absolute delight.

[Yamanashi 3,687]

52 minutes ago, Fashiritētā said:

Gonoyama in beast mode. 2 Ozeki scalps.

Takakeisho should have tried a stare down.

[Fashiritētā 154]

13 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Takakeisho should have tried a stare down.

I like Takakeisho, but for him it’s more of a stare up.

[WAKATAKE 2,614]

Gonoyama showing that he will be legit for the next few years to come

[Sumo Spiffy 522]

10 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

That's the way to get to yokozuna for Hoshoryu. Calmly taking care of the opponent, much better than than some excessive behaviour.

He was completely in the rythm of Abi

He's got Abi on lock now. It was a good win, but a win he should routinely get until Abi finds a new approach. If he can handle Nishikigi as easily, given their recent history, that (somehow) would be more meaningful.

[Sumo Spiffy 522]

49 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Still, nobody answered my question: why did Midorifuji not try to grab that nice huge juicy leg that was right in front of his nose for so many minutes?

It would mean releasing Hokuseiho's belt. If it didn't work, the fight would be lost. He'd already beaten Hokuseiho twice; he had fair reason to be confident he would find a way in the end, especially since he was able to interrupt what little offense Hokuseiho attempted.

After the break, it all fell apart because Hokuseiho got a real heavy lean on him. He still almost won, but the exhaustion got him. We may see a somewhat more active approach in future matches between them to avoid that outcome, but it'll depend on whether Hokuseiho shows any inclination to repeat that type of lean. (He should, and he should do it against a lot more people, he just... doesn't.)

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

Just now, Sumo Spiffy said:

It would mean releasing Hokuseiho's belt. If it didn't work, the fight would be lost. He'd already beaten Hokuseiho twice; he had fair reason to be confident he would find a way in the end, especially since he was able to interrupt what little offense Hokuseiho attempted.

After the break, it all fell apart because Hokuseiho got a real heavy lean on him. He still almost won, but the exhaustion got him. We may see a somewhat more active approach in future matches between them to avoid that outcome, but it'll depend on whether Hokuseiho shows any inclination to repeat that type of lean. (He should, and he should do it against a lot more people, he just... doesn't.)

I understand that he didn't want to release the belt, but he was clearly going nowhere with it. And with that comical size difference, grabbing Hokuseiho's left leg should have been quick and easy.

For some reason, many rikishi refuse to aknowledge that trying to outlast Hokuseiho rarely leads to success; standing on the dohyo forever is what he does best. A more opportunistic approach works better against him.

[Octofuji 316]

6 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

It'll depend on whether Hokuseiho shows any inclination to repeat that type of lean. (He should, and he should do it against a lot more people, he just... doesn't.)

And thank goodness for that! Once in a while is intriguing but no-one wants to watch six minutes of that every day.

[Akinomaki 39,548]

Mizu-iri break by Hisanosuke after 4:17min, the last in makuuchi was day 14 Haru 2015 Terunofuji-Ichinojo o

o

the bout lasted 6:41min in total

[dingo 1,121]

It's looking uncharacteristically bad for Takarafuji at such a low rank. He needs to pick up wins fast or else face the drop to juryo after a long makuuchi mainstay career. Curiously he hasn't looked particularly bad, but simply on the losing end. Fortunately today was much better from him, but he still needs 4-5 wins more to be sure.

Sadanoumi has been on fire these few days, showing the young uns how this sumo thing is done. Remarkable wrestling from the so often unremarkable rikishi. The crowd was loving it today as well.

After two straight losses I saw today as a test for Tamawashi. If he lost today, the momentum would be hard to recover. But he passed the "test" with flying colours, and looks like child go for double digits by the end of the basho.

Fantastic stuff from Hiradoumi. Despite desperately trying to escape, Atamifuji eventually had nowhere to go. Great win for Hiradoumi.

Hokuseiho vs Midorifuji... what can I say except what an epic struggle. Or more accurately, the struggle was mostly from Midorifuji's side. I was half afraid during the bout he'd have a heart attack right there. 

I know I keep blabbering how Takayasu is doing ozeki sumo, but really his poise and calmness, along with ferocious moves when required reminds me of it every day. Maybe it's because I'm partial to him, but then again who wouldn't be? 

Ura, oh my! Today truly is the day of upsets (except Midorifuji vs Hokuseiho). Kotonowaka only has himself to blame there. Never ever underestimate Ura and his wily sumo. 

Like Tamawashi, Daieisho had something to prove to himself as well as the audience today, and he did it with great determination. If not much else, at least he can keep his ozeki run going. 

Takakeisho's chances are slimming down, unless we're in for a total implosion by all the other leaders. Unfortunately for Takakeisho that seems quite unlikely looking at Hoshoryuu and Kirishima today. 

[Rocks 1,804]

 

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Still, nobody answered my question: why did Midorifuji not try to grab that nice huge juicy leg that was right in front of his nose for so many minutes?

Because lifting the leg while Hokuseoho  leaning that far forward is useless. He's not strong enough to push him straight backwards from that position. All of the leg taps were attempts to get Hokuseiho off balance enough to even try that. None worked. He also has to be concerned about going too far down himself as Hokuseiho is big enough to grab the back of his belt with both hands. If he does he is strong enough to lift Midoifuji off the ground from that position. He's done it to other smaller guys. 

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

I thought there was something refreshing about the Makuuchi sumo this basho, and then realized that Aoiyama, Chiyoshoma, and Kagayaki are all down in Juryo. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Kaninoyama

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

8 hours ago, Octofuji said:

And for me. You do wonder how long Hokuseiho would have let it go on for. Two of three water breaks? And also what ex-Hakuho makes of this style of sumo...

Knowing Mr. Win At All Costs and Damn the Consequences, I imagine he's just fine with it as long as it results in more wins for his disciple. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Kaninoyama

[Sumo Spiffy 522]

56 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Knowing Mr. Win At All Costs and Damn the Consequences, I imagine he's just fine with it as long as it results in more wins for his disciple. 

I imagine he's fine with the result, but he has to know this is no way forward for the kid. Whatever questions we might pose about what to do about it, he has to be asking himself five times as many.

[Reonito 1,296]

24 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

I imagine he's fine with the result, but he has to know this is no way forward for the kid. Whatever questions we might pose about what to do about it, he has to be asking himself five times as many.

Eh, sometimes even peak Terunofuji got into fights where his best strategy was to patiently wait out his opponent. (This is with regard to this fight only, not Hokuseiho's progress in general. I am a fan, but sometimes find his approach frustrating. Your YT breakdown was great BTW)