Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

Just now, Katooshu said:

Weird mentality - but whatever floats your boat 

Well, I happen to think that accolades have to be earned rather than handed out based on hype. If it makes me weird in your eyes - so be it. 

[Katooshu 3,079]

Ya pretty much no one has credited Onosato with already being a dai-yokozuna; like most other 'hype' rikishi they are just excited by his prospects, and rightfully so given his amateur achievements. I know some people find that absolutely unbearable though. Bah humbug! 

People are so fickle anyway, so if an up and comer drops bouts unexpectedly fans turn quick. Even after a single pro bout there was talk of him being a letdown. Soon he may be underrated if anything, especially among people who really did think he was already miles better than upper makushita. 

From my perspective, getting to juryo within 2-3 basho, then getting to makuuchi within the next 4 or 5 after that are the standards he should meet at minimum based on all that I've seen of him. Despite the 2-2 I think most likely he will KK again and stay on track. If he can't do that I will consider him to be underperforming. One of the consequences of Ochiai rising so quickly is that it can warp expectations of how quickly a top collegiate rikishi should move up, and if you really have seen people massively overhyping Onosato I think there's a good chance they've been caught in that trap.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Katooshu

[robnplunder 974]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Takakeisho might be the definition of one-sided, but he has a well-defined style at least. What is Hokuseiho's style? Not oshi, not classic yotsu - just "stand high and wait for the opponent to tire up and make a mistake". 

Ichinojo was like that.  B/c of that, he was always involved in long matches.  Hokuseiho had some long matches in his short career.  

Hakuoho couldn't hide his joy after beating Gonoyama for the first time.  I like the kid.

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

15 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

People are so fickle anyway, so if an up and comer drops bouts unexpectedly fans turn quick.

But you see, I am not fickle, I am always sceptical when a sumotori who never had a single bout in ozumo is proclaimed "the next big thing". 

[Katooshu 3,079]

'The next big thing' just suggests to me that someone will be a big focus of the public; it's not any specific assertion that they will be a dai-yokozuna - where does that even come from and how many people have you seen making such a claim? Maybe a couple at most, if it's actually happening? Smells like a strawman to me.

Onosato has been a big thing already anyway - he's gotten far more attention than most prospects, and rightfully so given that he was one of the greatest amateurs of all time, debuted at the extremely rare Ms10TD, and halfway through his second basho already visited juryo. It would be bizarre for him not to draw much attention given his uniquely excellent results and accelerated rise - or should he not be distinguished from your random scrawny 15 year old? Two of the three previous rikishi to debut at Ms10TD were at times among the biggest, or possibly even the biggest, names in sumo, and there is plenty of reason to expect him to become a prominent, high ranked rikishi - it's not baseless hype.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Katooshu

[Akinomaki 39,497]

The problem with collegiate rikishi like Onosato is that they join at an age where similarly strong rikishi who joined earlier already can be ozeki. Ochiai/Hakuoho maybe not, he's using up the health he still has to rise quickly and may shorten his career with it. Onosato is also one prone to injury, he's being coached well and doesn't overstrain his body now before he has the body of a pro. I guess it was wise for him not to choose Miyagino, there he wouldn't last till he has the chance to become only the second yokozuna yet who graduated from university. He won't be quicker there agewise than his shisho, I guess.

Edit: and today Takakeisho has ensured kadoban next basho by not returning

Edited July 15, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

It looks like we are not getting another jun-yusho run from Takayasu. Come back next time!

[Akinomaki 39,497]

That was it for Gonoyama and Takayasu in the yusho race this basho.

Asanoyama now is no longer in the top 3 of most popular bouts of the basho in the watched videos on the NHK site: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/sports/special/sumomovies/?cid=spohk-site-sumo202303-sports-banner#slider_rank

His first 6 bouts are in the top 10 though

[Akinomaki 39,497]

It's time to think about a 3rd yusho for Tamawashi

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

I missed Hokuseiho bout (went downstairs for a drink). How did he lose?

[lackmaker 428]

That's an inconvenient drink problem

[Tigerboy1966 1,372]

9 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

It's time to think about a 3rd yusho for Tamawashi

He certainly did well today as he had to really stretch and reach to get his style of sumo going against the giant. In my time of watching sumo (since Aki 2014) I'd say that he's the best wrestler never to make ozeki.

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

9 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

That's an inconvenient drink problem

Nobody is perfect. Give me another way of staying awake at 4:00am. 

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

Is this the beginning of the end of Nishikigi's Cinderella story?

[Chartorenji 235]

17 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Is this the beginning of the end of Nishikigi's Cinderella story?

bro lost once and we already questioning if this is it

[Bunbukuchagama 674]

2 minutes ago, Chartorenji said:

bro lost once and we already questioning if this is it

Bro only won 5 times and we were already handing him the Emperor's cup.

[Katooshu 3,079]

Yes, everyone was calling Nishikigi the next dai yokozuna weren't they 

[Tigerboy1966 1,372]

5 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Bro only won 5 times and we were already handing him the Emperor's cup.

Jumping to wild conclusions on the flimsiest of evidence is one of the joys of being a sumo fan.

[Taliesin 68]

Won't be easy for Kirishima to escape that kadoban. Probably should have rested properly. 

[Leoben 119]

Hoshoryu looking very much like an Ozeki today. He's now 2-0 against Asanoyama with his first win earned when Asanoyama was still an Ozeki himself.

[RabidJohn 1,628]

Man, Tamawashi must be fuming at his inability impose his style of sumo - a 4th yori-kiri win on the trot, this time with both hands on Hokuseiho's mawashi!

The Nishikigi bubble had to burst eventually, but 6-1 against everyone above him on the banzuke is an exceptional result. I hope he can get a decent KK, because he already deserves a skukun-sho, IMO.

Hoshoryu was great today. Gotta love that shitatenage of his.

Kirishima losing to the hapless, nothing-in-the-tank Mitakeumi was a big shock. 
Still think he made a mistake coming back...

[Kaito 269]

Extraordinary effort by Kiho to keep a foot in the dohyo that long today, but all of Onosato's losses have been him beating himself to some extent. He's looked physically dominant in every match to my eyes.

[junsan 167]

Hoshoryu totally humbled Asanoyama there. I'm extremely disappointed in Asanoyama as someone who was being built up as the next Yokozuna. I guess time to just see him as a joi guy at best.

[RabidJohn 1,628]

1 hour ago, junsan said:

I'm extremely disappointed in Asanoyama as someone who was being built up as the next Yokozuna.

The time for that was when he got himself suspended. Three years on, things have changed. There's a whole new bunch of very competent rikishi firmly ensconced in sanyaku now. 

He may eventually make it back to ozeki, but it was never going to be a cakewalk.

[Yamanashi 3,671]

The slippiotoshi cavalcade continues, being disguised as "wily hitakikomi" or "forceful tsukiotoshi".  I will remember Nagoya 2023 as Sumo On Ice.