Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[Katooshu 3,179]

Yuma maybe not because he has a bit of breathing room, but a J14w Chiyonoumi with a 7-8 will be demoted, not that he'll win 4 of 5 anyway........(edit: he lost again; should be at least 2 spots open now)

4-3 at Ms3e is a boarderline, 50-50 promotion case usually, not some dreadful rank/record that they won't bump an MK rikishi from the lowest juryo spot. Of course Onosato actually has to get that 4th win....

Edited July 19, 2023 by Katooshu

[Katooshu 3,179]

Lively match between Shishi and Tohakuryu. Shishi has definitely been more aggressive with slaps and thrusts than previously. Good win even if ugly.

Tomokaze's return to form has been impressive - slapped Oshoma down like it was nothing and now sole juryo leader at 9-2.

Shimanoumi now 3-8 at J10w and becoming a demotion threat himself, he better start winning again. Shimazuumi stops a 7 bout losing streak.

And there's loss 8 for Chiyonoumi at the lowest juryo rank - back to makushita and should open the second promotion spot. Ichiyamamoto with 3 straight wins and definitely safe in juryo.

Roga decisively beats Churanoumi by yorikiri to finally get a winning record, though he needs to close strong to lock up a makuuchi spot.

And to finish juryo, Kagayaki earns his spot in makuuchi with an 8th win, while Atamifuji drives Hakuyozan straight back and out, moving to 8-3 and now with a 21-5 record over his last 2 basho. Makuuchi next basho probably.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Katooshu

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

Gagamaru is a guest commentator on Abema again. It's pretty amazing how much weight he lost and how much younger he looks as a result.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

Takayasu looks done. 

[yorikiried by fate 2,001]

5 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

So, it failed to achieve the ideal harmony of form and substance? 

Let's construct the Idealtyp (see: Weber, M.).

In my imagination, the aesthetically perfect henka is prepared by at least two intentional matta on the henka-planning side (at best, the opponent is tricked into an additional matta of his own). Then, at tachi-ai, the henkaing party is stepping to the side without ever losing foot contact to the ground (i.e. no silly hopping), while the opponent passes without making any contact whatsoever. The opponent recovers just at the edge, before he is losing balance turning around and falling off the dohyo backwards. This being provoked by the henkaing party's quick feint attack movement. Off the dohyo the heankaist's opponent iedally crashes into the salt bucket or gets henkaed once more by one of the shimpan who might have some history of henka himself.

Finally, the henkaist offers the customary helping hand, but retracts it before the customary rejection.

The kensho pile should be medium sized and be picked up with the left hand.

[Chartorenji 235]

Nishikigi with ease. Has the be the fave for Yusho at this point, beat all the hard Rikishi already. 

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

Valiant effort by Hokutofuji. 

[Jakusotsu 5,874]

22 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Valiant effort by Hokutofuji. 

...and by Wakamotoharu as well. Good fight.

[Kaninoyama 1,712]

Kirishima just may get his kachikoshi. Looking like the Ozeki that he is out there. 

[Akinomaki 40,053]

On 17/07/2023 at 09:21, Akinomaki said:

Inosuke was surprisingly properly doing his kaobure duties from day 2 to 13 on most days so far - days 2, 3, 5, 7 and 8, but after yesterdays strain of course took a break today.

Also on day 10, but Inosuke was back again today: his health must have been improved. Sumo fans showed much sympathy for him gambarizing at the try to retie the mawashi of Kirishima. We can be sure that he won't retire early.

[Benevolance 2,483]

Daieisho clearly showing his Ozeki chops there by helping out a fellow future Ozeki in desperate need of a win. I think that (and three more wins) should clinch the promotion for him.

[Octofuji 349]

6 hours ago, 808morgan said:

Long arms, no neck

Good call. Or to quote Kintamayama's gnomic utterance: "When a neck is lacking, thrusts are meaningless".

Good call by the torikumi committee too, Shonannoumi was unlucky to lose.

[Reonito 1,384]

5 hours ago, Octofuji said:

Good call by the torikumi committee too, Shonannoumi was unlucky to lose.

I thought he got robbed. Nobody saw that toe touch first?

[Octofuji 349]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

I thought he got robbed. Nobody saw that toe touch first?

Yes I think Kotonowaka's right toe touched marginally before Shonannoumi. Should have been a redo at least.

[nagora 88]

32 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

Yes I think Kotonowaka's right toe touched marginally before Shonannoumi. Should have been a redo at least.

I agree.

[dingo 1,212]

Nishikigi didn't even feel the need to do anything resembling a tachiai against Endo. Simply just bulldozed him out with raw strength. Very impressive.

Daieisho might be good at pushing, but as soon as he encounters someone adept at exploiting his pushing sumo with well timed pulls, he's well exposed. 

[junsan 170]

Good for Nishikigi. Reminds me of Aoiyama in one of the lockdown basho where he won jun yusho.

[junsan 170]

14 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Takayasu looks done. 

What? How exactly? One could easily see that Tochinoshin was "done" before he actually got done. Compared to that all's well with Yasu.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

2 hours ago, junsan said:

What? How exactly? One could easily see that Tochinoshin was "done" before he actually got done. Compared to that all's well with Yasu.

His fighting spirit is gone. 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

36 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

His fighting spirit is gone. 

":sobs: I can't win a yūshō and this young upstart half-munmified whippersnapper is beating me!" 

[Godango 973]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

His fighting spirit is gone. 

Big Takayasu fan that I am, I feel like you've nailed it. Long-term, niggling, injuries no doubt; but I feel like this is the first time I've seen his mind give way.

I'm not panicking about intai or anything; I just wish he'd go kyujo now when he's obviously out of the game this basho mentally if not physically.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Godango

[dingo 1,212]

I think it's way too early to declare Takayasu done. It's just been a five day slump for crying out loud. Whereas the first five days of the basho he went 5-0 and his fighting spirit was well on display. So while I'm sure Takayasu himself is also thoroughly unhappy with the slump, there can be many different reasons for it. Right now I see no reason why he wouldn't bounce back next basho for example. After all he's had much worse potentially spirit crushing experiences, the ketteisen loss to Abi being just one of them. He's bounced back from that so I'm flabbergasted that people are now burying him for good. Way too exaggerated. 

[Godango 973]

2 minutes ago, dingo said:

I think it's way too early to declare Takayasu done. It's just been a five day slump for crying out loud. Whereas the first five days of the basho he went 5-0 and his fighting spirit was well on display. So while I'm sure Takayasu himself is also thoroughly unhappy with the slump, there can be many different reasons for it. Right now I see no reason why he wouldn't bounce back next basho for example. After all he's had much worse potentially spirit crushing experiences, the ketteisen loss to Abi being just one of them. He's bounced back from that so I'm flabbergasted that people are now burying him for good. Way too exaggerated. 

Totally agree, I realised I said go intai in my post when I meant go kyujo; corrected.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

10 minutes ago, dingo said:

I think it's way too early to declare Takayasu done. It's just been a five day slump for crying out loud. Whereas the first five days of the basho he went 5-0 and his fighting spirit was well on display. So while I'm sure Takayasu himself is also thoroughly unhappy with the slump, there can be many different reasons for it. Right now I see no reason why he wouldn't bounce back next basho for example. After all he's had much worse potentially spirit crushing experiences, the ketteisen loss to Abi being just one of them. He's bounced back from that so I'm flabbergasted that people are now burying him for good. Way too exaggerated. 

It's not just a 6-day losing streak, it's the way he is losing. 

[Yamanashi 3,776]

In my mind, if Nishikigi wins the yusho (no jinx, too much can happen!) it's a bigger thing than Tokushoryu's "miracle Yusho."  Although he's at M1, I'd guess almost no one thought he'd get anything but beaten up by the San'yaku and dropped to ~M7.

After day 11, Tokushoryu's opponents had a total rank (based on M1e = 1, K2 = 0, etc) of 301; Nishikigi has a total rank of 23 (thanks to his battle with M16e Endo).