Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[Yamanashi 3,675]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Kinbozan won, so, his cannot be lame by definition.

Alright, you figured it out!

 

[Benevolance 2,453]

Not sure I like Waka's chances here at making the triple.

Unrelated, I hope all the Waka bros make it to sekitori and then Jim Henson studios decides to make a Muppets in Tokyo movie and the Waka brothers get sponsored by Fozzy the Bear because that's a marketing opportunity just waiting to happen. 

[dingo 1,110]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Objection! I only inquired about henka quality from a subjectively aesthetic point of view. 

I think you'll find that henka quality is entirely subjective. So from my subjective point of view Kinbouzan's henka was very lame winning or losing notwithstanding. 

[Koorifuu 858]

2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

You know, with all the focus on the ozeki race, I had almost forgotten that there was this "yusho" thing going on.

Reading your comment just reminded me that's indeed a thing... Very easy to forget.

[Jakusotsu 5,725]

Yusho don't matter. It's the banzuke that matters. Everybody knows who's Ozeki, but do you remember who won the yusho in November?

[Tigerboy1966 1,372]

4 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Yusho don't matter.

Tell that to Takayasu.

But yeah, the purpose of a basho is to determine the banzuke for the next basho.

[Jakusotsu 5,725]

9 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Tell that to Takayasu.

He knows better than anyone else.

[Sakura 1,461]

5 hours ago, Churaumi said:

What's that old joke? A nation is just a language with an army?

I've heard that a language is just a dialect with an army.

 

[junsan 167]

Let's put it this way. Kinbozan's henka, though functionally successful, was aesthetically unremarkable.

[Yangnomazuma 77]

16 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Another slippiotoshi. 

Wildly informative post.  I'd like to give you all my likes but my finger keeps slipping off my mouse button.

[Benevolance 2,453]

Junsan's post was almost a good haiku. I edited it down to this...

Kinbozan's henka
functionally effective
lacking aesthetics
 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Benevolance

[Tochinofuji 364]

47 minutes ago, Sakura said:

I've heard that a language is just a dialect with an army.

 

I was about to say, that is the one I know. Sometimes a language is a dialect with an army and a dictionary, but that was a bit of a rarer one. 

[Yarimotsu 513]

5 hours ago, Octofuji said:

Takarafuji (M15) v Abi (Komusubi) is a very odd match up tomorrow

https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=11&m=on&rank1=K-Y&rank2=M10-M17

I drew up a quick and nasty query to see how often this kind of thing happens. Looks like they used to do these matchups with a strong O-K in the 40s facing a sacrificial M10-M13 quite often. Then in the 70s through to 2001 it became common to match up well-performing rikishi from the depths with sanyaku on day 11 - never at worse than 7-3 going in, and never from lower than M14. This bout is entirely unprecedented.

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

1 hour ago, junsan said:

Let's put it this way. Kinbozan's henka, though functionally successful, was aesthetically unremarkable.

So, it failed to achieve the ideal harmony of form and substance? 

[Octofuji 316]

3 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=11&m=on&rank1=K-Y&rank2=M10-M17

I drew up a quick and nasty query to see how often this kind of thing happens. Looks like they used to do these matchups with a strong O-K in the 40s facing a sacrificial M10-M13 quite often. Then in the 70s through to 2001 it became common to match up well-performing rikishi from the depths with sanyaku on day 11 - never at worse than 7-3 going in, and never from lower than M14. This bout is entirely unprecedented.

I'd missed that Shonannoumi (M14) is facing the other Komusubi Kotonowaka. But as you say he is at least at 7-3 and nominally in contention for the yusho.

Lately at least (I can't check the first page of your query as the database is down) the san'yaku rikishi has also been in the yusho race, which isn't the case for either Abi or Kotonowaka.

[808morgan 805]

9 hours ago, Octofuji said:

Takarafuji (M15) v Abi (Komusubi) is a very odd match up tomorrow

Long arms, no neck

[Jakusotsu 5,725]

Ishizaki, man of the day!

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

Another guaranteed dai-Yokozuna is 3-3 in Makushita. 

[Katooshu 3,079]

The good news for him is that Tokihayate aside, the other high ranked makushita are losing as much or more. If he can get that 4th win he should be in juryo next basho, unless there are some major comebacks at the bottom of juryo.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

Tokihayate returning to Juryo in style. 

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

2 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

The good news for him is that the other high ranked makushita are losing as much or more. If he can get that 4th win he should be in juryo next basho, unless there are some major comebacks at the bottom of juryo.

Yes, he might get lucky. 4-3 from Ms3 is usually a weak case. 

[Katooshu 3,079]

From his rank it's been about 50-50 - so not that weak.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=ms3e&form1_wins=4&offset=100

Edited July 19, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

5 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

From his rank it's been about 50-50 - so not that weak.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=ms3e&form1_wins=4&offset=100

We shall see. Takahashi just won; with 5-2, he would be above Onosato. 

But the bottom of Juryo has plenty of terrible records, yes. 

[Katooshu 3,079]

Ya he won by moving Tsushimanada ever closer to demotion. Fujiseiun is coming down, Chiyonoumi and Tsushi need to win out, and Yuma can only drop 1 more at most. I'd think on current form it's unlikely more than one (Yuma suddenly looking solid) will do that. I'd expect Onosato at 4-3 to be above a 5-2 Ishizaki, so if he gets the 4th I don't see him lower than 3rd in promotion order even if we assume Takahashi and Ishi win their final matches - although based on rank/record they might be paired against each other, meaning the loser will definitely be behind a 4-3 Onosato.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

1 minute ago, Katooshu said:

Ya he won by moving Tsushimanada ever closer to demotion. Fujiseiun is coming down, and Chiyonoumi, Yuma, and Tsushi need to win out. I'd think on current form it's unlikely more than one (Yuma suddenly looking solid) will do that. I'd expect him at 4-3 to be above a 5-2 Ishizaki, so if he gets the 4th I don't see him lower than 3rd in promotion order. We'll see.

A 7-8 Yuma or Chiyonoumi will not be demoted in favour of a 4-3 Onosato or Mukainakano, so, they still have a chance.