Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

5 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

It's a familiar topic in here. Roga, Sokokurai & his protégé Daiseizan are all effectively Mongolians in all but citizenship.

Roga is Tuvan, which is not quite Mongolian. Daiseizan is Mongolian from Inner Mongolia (which is a part of China).

[RabidJohn 1,663]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Hoshoryu has never struck me as having a particularly dangerous style.

Me neither. 

I'd guess that the most dangerous style of ozumo is leading with your head at the tachi-ai like, for example, Takakeisho and Hokutofuji. 
Yet Hokutofuji takes his aggression no further than the tawara, often making an exaggerated show of stopping there, like he did today. 

I also commented earlier in the basho about Daieisho (another headbanger) instantly switching from pushing to pulling to prevent falls.

When you get right down to it, ozumo is and always will be 'dangerous' to a certain extent; that's why there are so many injuries.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

3 hours ago, Getayukata said:

I am wondering if all the tape on his shoulder is why he tried to do a henka in the first place?

As far as I understand, his shoulder injury is old and persistent; tape is there as a precaution of sorts. 

All this talk about injuries after every loss reminds me of Stephen Curry (NBA) several years ago, when he was proclaimed injured after every bad game, but magically healthy when he dropped 50 points a couple of days later.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

5 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Me neither. 

I'd guess that the most dangerous style of ozumo is leading with your head at the tachi-ai like, for example, Takakeisho and Hokutofuji. 
Yet Hokutofuji takes his aggression no further than the tawara, often making an exaggerated show of stopping there, like he did today. 

I also commented earlier in the basho about Daieisho (another headbanger) instantly switching from pushing to pulling to prevent falls.

When you get right down to it, ozumo is and always will be 'dangerous' to a certain extent; that's why there are so many injuries.

Not-quite-elbow in the face/neck at the tachiai (like in Hakuho's last bout or when Tochinoshin knocked down Enho in Juryo) should be considered more dirty and dangerous than whatever Hoshoryu does.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

1 hour ago, nagora said:

I'm starting to feel sorry for young Hokuseiho; he just looks gormless out there at the moment, all height and no experience.

A lot has been said about how his height makes it difficult for other rikishi but I wonder if it's actually also making things difficult for him. If he were to get a standard yotsu grip, he would be almost bent over double with an unstable centre of gravity and be easy prey to slapdowns, whereas his preferred tactic of grabbing the mawashi knot robs his opponent of forward momentum. Not sure why he doesn't make more use of slapdowns himself, though.

Also, surely Hakuhō would have gotten the idiosyncracy out of him if it were actually immediately helpful to his sumo.

[Akinomaki 39,770]

57 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Roga is Tuvan, which is not quite Mongolian. Daiseizan is Mongolian from Inner Mongolia (which is a part of China).

Roga initially was treated as Mongolian and there haven't been any news contradicting that his father is Mongolian, so one could call him Mongolian, if only he wouldn't hate to be called that - and Arashio/Sokokurai also is Mongolian from Inner Mongolia

On 25/01/2019 at 14:45, Akinomaki said:

Jonokuchi yusho winner Roga doesn't like to be called a Mongolian: "I'm Russian"

On 04/09/2018 at 17:35, Akinomaki said:

First foreign high school yokozuna Amarsanaa (19, 183cm, 135kg) has a Mongolian father and a Russian mother, lived in the Russian republic of Tuva till age 14 and his father (a 2m man) is 3 times champion of Tuvan sumo Khuresh - equal to yokozuna.

His father lived in UlaanBaatar when he moved to his place at age 14, that's why his shusshin is listed as UlaanBaatar, but he's born and raised in Tuva. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20190125-OHT1T50086.html

Roga came to Japan at age 15 +2months, so he only lived 1 year in Mongolia

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

12 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Roga initially was treated as Mongolian and there haven't been any news contradicting that his father is Mongolian, so one could call him Mongolian, if only he wouldn't hate to be called that - and Arashio/Sokokurai also is Mongolian from Inner Mongolia

You see, it turned out even more complicated than I expected.

[Yamanashi 3,724]

10 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

"Хочу секитори стать сильнее". A bit strange grammatically, but should be translated as "I want to become a stronger sekitori".

Also, it is Russian, not Ukrainian.

What they don't tell you: Melitopol is in the middle of an area that is culturally (and linguistically) Russian, and Russian is probably his native language.

[Yamanashi 3,724]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Roga is Tuvan, which is not quite Mongolian. Daiseizan is Mongolian from Inner Mongolia (which is a part of China).

The db has a Mongolian name and a shishin of Ulan-Bator. ??

 

EDIT:  I saw the reply above.  Tuva is a Russian Republic, so technically he's Russian.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Yamanashi

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

4 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

The db has a Mongolian name and a shishin of Ulan-Bator. ??

 

EDIT:  I saw the reply above.  Tuva is a Russian Republic, so technically he's Russian.

Again, nationality vs. ethnicity.

[Fashiritētā 169]

3 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Again, nationality vs. ethnicity.

The fine line that it is.

Spoceba moi comrade in Sumo

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

10 minutes ago, Fashiritētā said:

Spoceba moi comrade in Sumo

И тебе спасибо, товарищ! 

[Fashiritētā 169]

14 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

И тебе спасибо, товарищ! 

Добро пожаловать, Хошорюс Басё, чтобы проиграть

Edited July 17, 2023 by Fashiritētā

[Octofuji 327]

4 hours ago, dingo said:

Hoshoryuu used his one standing leg much better than Hiradoumi to push the latter out. Some experience from Mongolian wrestling coming out?

I didn't know that involved balletic hopping whilst taking a knee to your opponent's nether regions .

But I expect you're right.

[Octofuji 327]

It looked like a few people winning after getting riled up today.

Daishoho after Hakuoho's henka, Tobizaru after Kotonowaka's kotenage attempt, and even Nishikigi with a mild dame-oshi (maybe he didn't like Mitakeumi yanking his mawashi knot).

An odd but watchable day of sumo all round.

[nagora 88]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

A lot has been said about how his height makes it difficult for other rikishi but I wonder if it's actually also making things difficult for him. If he were to get a standard yotsu grip, he would be almost bent over double with an unstable centre of gravity and be easy prey to slapdowns, whereas his preferred tactic of grabbing the mawashi knot robs his opponent of forward momentum. Not sure why he doesn't make more use of slapdowns himself, though.

Also, surely Hakuhō would have gotten the idiosyncracy out of him if it were actually immediately helpful to his sumo.

There's been a noticeable tendency to push up on his chin, which I guess is easier because everyone else is starting so far below his chin and of course it makes it hard for him to see what he's doing or reach for the mawashi.

[yorikiried by fate 1,989]

8 hours ago, Hakuryuho said:

That's what impressed me about Hakuho or most of the other Mongolian rikishi: The spirit of Genghis Khan still lives on through them because of their tenacity, ferocity and drive to win at all costs.

You didn't catch much of Kyokutenho's work, I gather?

[Hakuryuho 334]

11 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

You didn't catch much of Kyokutenho's work, I gather?

"or most of the other Mongolian rikishi"

Reading is hard, I gather?

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

Hoshoryu certainly has that Hakuho-like ruthlessness to do anything to his opponents if it results in a win. But he's equally ruthless toward himself. Anyone else remember him face planting on the tawara on more than one occasion and turning into a bloody mess to win rather than extend a hand to break his fall and lose?

He dishes out punishment, but he's willing to take it as well. 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Kaninoyama

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

Toshunryu's utchari against Obara was almost an izori - beautiful!

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

16 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Toshunryu's utchari against Obara was almost an izori - beautiful!

He is so skinny...

[yorikiried by fate 1,989]

7 hours ago, Hakuryuho said:

"or most of the other Mongolian rikishi"

Reading is hard, I gather?

No, no, I saw your qualifier. Sometimes you have to cut corners for cheap laughs.

[MrGrumpyGills 119]

I wonder if (or rather when?) Kiho is going to replace Enhō as "real life Hinomaru Ushio" in some newbie sumo fans' minds ^^;

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

Spectacular move in juryo as 111kg Kiho lifts 187kg Daiamami clean off his feet. A reminder that sumo's "little guys" are hugely powerful by normal human standards.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

Kinbozan henka! He is officially a makuuchi regular.