Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[dingo 1,160]

6 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Shishi wrote his wish in Ukrainian (no translation given by Nikkan)

o

I don't speak Ukrainian, but I do read Russian which is somewhat similar. As far as I understand it says something like "I want to become a strong sekitori". 

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

When did Takayasu become useless?

[Akinomaki 39,790]

29 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

"Хочу секитори стать сильнее". A bit strange grammatically, but should be translated as "I want to become a stronger sekitori".

Also, it is Russian, not Ukrainian.

Nikkan wrote "wrote it in his native tongue"

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

Just now, Akinomaki said:

Nikkan wrote "wrote it in his native tongue"

Many Ukrainians' native tongue is Russian; Shishi is from Melitopol', which is in the East of Ukraine, currently occupied by Russian invaders.

In general, relation between nationality (as in "citizenship"), ethnicity and language is quite complex in former Soviet republics. But you can trust me, Russian is my first language, and I am familiar enough with Ukrainian to recognize the difference.

[Chartorenji 235]

There was a glimmer from Mitakeumi, even without the strength still. Then a fizzle out after the turnaround. 

If you asked people a year ago "Who would have a bigger fall off, Mitakeumi or Shodai" I doubt many would've said Mita. 

[Chartorenji 235]

Ozeki level sumo back to back there. Let's see if Wakamotoharu can make it a triple

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

17 minutes ago, Chartorenji said:

There was a glimmer from Mitakeumi, even without the strength still. Then a fizzle out after the turnaround. 

If you asked people a year ago "Who would have a bigger fall off, Mitakeumi or Shodai" I doubt many would've said Mita. 

Well he's clearly injured (thigh and who knows what else). Let's give him a chance to heal his wounds before we write him off completely. 

[Katooshu 3,135]

I wish I could rally some hope behind Mita bouncing back to his old form, but that's 7 MK in his last 8 basho now.....it's not just a bad tournament here or there. He used to be the most reliable KK in the top division but it's going the other way now. 

Also, that was one of the strangest kakenages I've seen - almost like Hosh locked it in and then just one-legged yorikiri'd Hiradoumi out. At this point I think Hosh looks most likely of the three to succeed in his ozeki bid - he has moves for pretty much every situation.

Ozeki hopefuls go 3 for 3 - they will need those wins before they start to hand each other losses. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Katooshu

[Akinomaki 39,790]

27 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Many Ukrainians' native tongue is Russian; Shishi is from Melitopol', which is in the East of Ukraine, currently occupied by Russian invaders.

In general, relation between nationality (as in "citizenship"), ethnicity and language is quite complex in former Soviet republics. But you can trust me, Russian is my first language, and I am familiar enough with Ukrainian to recognize the difference.

I thought so and didn't doubt that you were right, I rather presume that Nikkan doesn't recognize the difference. I meant it as an excuse for my misjudgement, because I simply wrote Ukrainian without knowing that it really was that, only inferred from the text. Since Japanese is ambiguous and doesn't even differentiate between mouse and rat, the writers don't have to be precise.

[lackmaker 432]

1 hour ago, Chartorenji said:

Ozeki level sumo back to back there. Let's see if Wakamotoharu can make it a triple

Triple ozeki sumo it is

[dada78641 884]

I'm glad Hokutofuji is doing well this basho. I've been a huge fan of his sumo since his initial makuuchi successes that had people singing his praises, but he's generally had a rough time.

I hope this is not just one exceptionally good basho, but more a sign that he's fixed the issues that held him back in the past.

[Koorifuu 886]

2 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

In general, relation between nationality (as in "citizenship"), ethnicity and language is quite complex in former Soviet republics. But you can trust me, Russian is my first language, and I am familiar enough with Ukrainian to recognize the difference.

It's a familiar topic in here. Roga, Sokokurai & his protégé Daiseizan are all effectively Mongolians in all but citizenship.

[Koorifuu 886]

Anyways, speaking of Shishi, he almost killed Chiyomaru today. That was nasty, I was glad to see the round one standing up after that.

[Getayukata 119]

6 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Lesson learned today for Hakuoho: how to lose after pulling a henka.

I am wondering if all the tape on his shoulder is why he tried to do a henka in the first place?

[Seiyashi 4,071]

5 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Also, that was one of the strangest kakenages I've seen - almost like Hosh locked it in and then just one-legged yorikiri'd Hiradoumi out. At this point I think Hosh looks most likely of the three to succeed in his ozeki bid - he has moves for pretty much every situation.

The kakenage looked brutal because of Hōsh's grip on Hiradoumi's upper body, almost like a kotenage. The replay showed it wasn't that bad for Hiradoumi's arm, but then he had to endure Hōsh's knee near his balls all the time the throw was being executed, and there was a lot more rotating going on compared to a normal kakenage.

Great technique, but it wasn't pretty, especially not compared to Akua's much cleaner and faster kakenage down in jūryō today. It won't help Hōsh's apparent rep as someone who wins at all costs, and bowling Hiradoumi straight into Inosuke is just the cherry on top.

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Anyways, speaking of Shishi, he almost killed Chiyomaru today. That was nasty, I was glad to see the round one standing up after that.

To be fair, Chiyomaru was doing his darndest to either separate his head from his shoulders or to strangle him. That said, Shishi getting up and just walking off without bothering to look at Chiyomaru much less help him up felt really cold.

On a separate note, did anyone get Kotoshōgiku vibes from Mukainakano's bout today? The slow motion replay is hilarious and almost obscene.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Seiyashi

[Hakuryuho 334]

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Great technique, but it wasn't pretty. It won't help Hōsh's apparent rep as someone who wins at all costs. 

That's what I love about Hoshoryu.
He's always giving it 110% no matter what.
I think that's what makes him one of my favourite rikishi of all time: He reminds me a lot of Hakuho, who himself said that Yokozuna Sumo is Winning, nothing more nothing less.
Doesn't matter how you win,  just that you DO win.

Too many rikishi are far too content with being mediocre, even in the two upper divisions.
Happy to be a Juryo rikishi or a Makunouchi rank-and-filer, as long as they get their salary.
 

That's what impressed me about Hakuho or most of the other Mongolian rikishi: The spirit of Genghis Khan still lives on through them
because of their tenacity, ferocity and drive to win at all costs.

People may not like it and deem it lacking hinkaku, I understand that.
But Sumo isn't ballet dancing, it's still a combat sport.

I look forward to all of Hoshoryu's bouts, you never know what you are going to get, but what you do know is that it's going to be spectactular :)
 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

8 minutes ago, Hakuryuho said:

That's what impressed me about Hakuho or most of the other Mongolian rikishi: The spirit of Genghis Khan still lives on through them
because of their tenacity, ferocity and drive to win at all costs.

People may not like it and deem it lacking hinkaku, I understand that.
But Sumo isn't ballet dancing, it's still a combat sport.

I agree Hōshōryū is probably the top draw right now for intensity in sumo. That said, re hinkaku, well, to put a Western spin on it, it's professionalism isn't it? Being able to go from trying to murder someone in the ring to caring about them the moment your job is done, looks miles better than chucking them off a dohyō and walking away bad-boy style. Not that I'm hating on Hōsh or what - I'm probably placing too much expectation on him to be able to turn the ruthlessness on and off at will - but that would have been the ideal for a rikishi.

It's the reason why I'm looking forward to Hakuōhō making an explosive debut in makuuchi and moving up the ranks as soon as possible. I really want to root for someone who loves sumo but at the same time also is a great guy the moment he's done, and Hakuōhō taking time to properly bow and all that strikes me very favourably in that regard. Asanoyama was great for that until he got himself promoted.

[RabidJohn 1,665]

44 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

The kakenage looked brutal because of Hōsh's grip on Hiradoumi's upper body, almost like a kotenage. The replay showed it wasn't that bad for Hiradoumi's arm, but then he had to endure Hōsh's knee near his balls all the time the throw was being executed, and there was a lot more rotating going on compared to a normal kakenage.

Great technique, but it wasn't pretty, especially not compared to Akua's much cleaner and faster kakenage down in jūryō today. It won't help Hōsh's apparent rep as someone who wins at all costs, and bowling Hiradoumi straight into Inosuke is just the cherry on top.

I'd have gone with 'alleged' 

I saw nothing brutal in Hoshoryu's bout, just some good sumo. Those tawara balancing competitions happen all the time, look great, and always end with someone on the floor below the dohyo. 

I did see Kotonowaka try several nasty kotenage attempts on Tobizaru (and succeed in hurting him, if the way he moved his arm afterwards is any indication), but it was perfectly legit sumo. I was glad Kotonowaka lost, though.

Edited July 17, 2023 by RabidJohn

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Yeah, Tobizaru certainly got a lot of sympathy points for the cack-handed kotenage attempts by Kotonowaka.

Just to be clear, I take the point that sumo is ultimately a combat spot and winning often takes priority over how you win, which is why henkas exist in the first place. I'm just wishing for that one rikishi who's dominant and can still look like a saint doing it, and Hōsh ain't it right now however technically good his sumo is. Wakamotoharu I think is actually the closest among the three ōzeki candidates.

[dingo 1,160]

Is Hakuoho's shoulder injury getting to him? I get that Daishoho is a heavy opponent and needs some exertion to be pushed out but come on, a henka? Or was it just a try out against a slow opponent? In either case, Hakuoho failed quite miserably.

Endo yusho here we come! (just to get that out of the way. For the record, I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hot Nagoya to win).

Takayasu seems not just out of steam, but harbouring a seriously bothering injury. I just can't think of any other explanation of his sudden drop in sumo quality.

Nice kachikoshi for Hokutofuji, my favourite Kaio-lookalike. Happy for him.

Mitakeumi almost got Nishikigi, which looking at this basho's results would've been quite an upset. I think it's too early to bury Mitakeumi, he still has some spark in him from time to time.

Hoshoryuu used his one standing leg much better than Hiradoumi to push the latter out. Some experience from Mongolian wrestling coming out?

[RabidJohn 1,665]

7 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm just wishing for that one rikishi who's dominant and can still look like a saint doing it, and Hōsh ain't it right now however technically good his sumo is. Wakamotoharu I think is actually the closest among the three ōzeki candidates.

Lol - that's a bloody tall order! It has never been a requirement for ozeki or yokozuna promotion, either, as far as I can recall.

I know what you mean about Wakamotoharu, though. His impassive demeanour is top notch.

Edited July 17, 2023 by RabidJohn

[Seiyashi 4,071]

13 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Lol - that's a bloody tall order! It has never been a requirement for ozeki or yokozuna promotion, either, as far as I can recall.

It isn't, but one can hope. I'm not saying it should be a requirement, just that it would be the epitome of achievement in sumo to do so and which would distinguish the true masters from the rest. That's reaching a state where they're so good that they don't need to try and project a death aura or an image of ruthlessness, and are perfectly capable of gentlemanliness to their opponents after the bout.

Arguably Hakuhō came closest to it of all the rikishi I've seen so far, as far as getting near mushin goes, but he wasn't exactly gentlemanly especially near the end of his career when he was focused on winning at all costs. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Seiyashi

[junsan 170]

Kotoeko's spirit animal is definitely a bullfrog.

Edited July 17, 2023 by junsan

[Katooshu 3,135]

Hoshoryu has never struck me as having a particularly dangerous style. I'd say pretty much every oshi specialist dealing hard blows to the head and neck, as well as kotenage aficionados like Tamawashi (I guess he covers both styles) are more dangerous to face. And so far late shoves haven't made it into his repertoire. 

Asanoyama was injured resisting an uwatenage, but that's a throw that is a basic part of sumo and till now I've never seen it singled out for being dangerous.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Katooshu

[nagora 88]

Lot of balance issues today.

I'm starting to feel sorry for young Hokuseiho; he just looks gormless out there at the moment, all height and no experience.

Abi seem to have completely lost his focus while Tobi seems to have found an intensity that I don't normally associate with him. I'm not saying he has lasers coming out his eyes or anything but he seems to have a bit less of the relaxed attitude. Give him a gold star - oh, that's right, they already did!