Natsu 2023 discussion (results)

[junsan 170]

4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

That is the reason for his new shikona Hakuoho 伯桜鵬, I expected some sakura from Kotozakura, a different Haku than in Hakuho, from a local mountain, Mt. Daizen, also called Hokidaizen https://www.yamakei-online.com/yamanavi/yama.php?yama_id=832

This other ho is usually read haku, meaning count, earl

"Count Cherry Blossom Mythologolical Bird"

[Kamitsuumi 384]

6 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

That is the reason for his new shikona Hakuoho 伯桜鵬, I expected some sakura from Kotozakura, a different Haku than in Hakuho, from a local mountain, Mt. Daizen, also called Hokidaizen https://www.yamakei-online.com/yamanavi/yama.php?yama_id=832

This other ho is usually read haku, meaning count, earl

Is it not from the ancient province name itself, Hōki Province (abbreviationed Hakushū)?

[Kotomiyama 165]

Great basho with some excellent bouts and a powerful sanyaku. Some thoughts:

Kiribayama becomes Ozeki and I get the feeling that he will last longer in the ranks than the last. I predict a long and fruitful ozekihood.

Hoshoryu has been somehow surpassed by Kiribayama as the Ozeki prospect and I sensed some rage in today's bout. He has what's needed to be an Ozeki, but he needs that extra push. July will decide.

Takakeisho from a Yokozuna possibility to clearing kadoban with a lackluster 8-7 score. I do not like his style nor his demeanor, his bout against Wakamotoharu was a vicious attack that doesn't belong in an Ozeki repertoire.

[RabidJohn 1,663]

Terunofuji said more in his yusho interview than I'm used to hearing from any rikishi; he was quite talkative! 
How he faced his enforced lay-off after surgery;
how he wouldn't have entered if he didn't believe he could win;
how he prepared for his bout against Kiribayama as he would against an ozeki;
that it's fun facing young rikishi who are getting stronger; and
that winning a yusho is very hard!

---

@Kotomiyama I'm not a Takakeisho fan, but he's a very successful ozeki with 3 titles. He's done that by pushing his body beyond what it's physically capable of. He's the ultimate ozumo tryhard IMO.
And I'll just point it out again: Wakamotoharu led with an elbow to Takakeisho's chin at the tachi-ai (the move Hakuho KO'd Myogiryu with in 2012). A few roundhouse harite in response was ok by me - and I am a Wakamotoharu fan.
 

[Hoshotakamoto 256]

1 hour ago, Kotomiyama said:

Great basho with some excellent bouts and a powerful sanyaku. Some thoughts:

Kiribayama becomes Ozeki and I get the feeling that he will last longer in the ranks than the last. I predict a long and fruitful ozekihood.

Hoshoryu has been somehow surpassed by Kiribayama as the Ozeki prospect and I sensed some rage in today's bout. He has what's needed to be an Ozeki, but he needs that extra push. July will decide.

Takakeisho from a Yokozuna possibility to clearing kadoban with a lackluster 8-7 score. I do not like his style nor his demeanor, his bout against Wakamotoharu was a vicious attack that doesn't belong in an Ozeki repertoire.

At least Hoshoryu can finally move up to S1e. Hard work pays off.

[Morty 1,480]

3 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

 

@Kotomiyama I'm not a Takakeisho fan, but he's a very successful ozeki with 3 titles. He's done that by pushing his body beyond what it's physically capable of. He's the ultimate ozumo tryhard IMO.

 

For me the fact that Takakeisho has even managed to get to a point where he has had two Yokozuna runs is staggering given he is only 5'8" tall in an open weight division, fighting some guys nearly a foot taller than him, and he's exclusively an oshi specialist. He's been Terunofuji's main rival during his second phase (ie return to Ozeki and Yok) despite the fact he's giving up 6 inches and 25 kilos to him. He's done it by piling on way more weight than his frame should carry, and as you say, going beyond what he is physically capable of. I reckon that's why he is never far away from getting injured. It must be hell on his knees. Just watching him climb on and off the dohyo this basho made me wince, and after one bout he looked like he was in so much pain he was about to cry. He is the ultimate overachiever given what nature has given him to work with and I have nothing but admiration for him as a result. I have no doubt all that damage he has done to his body in pursuit of something that should have been beyond a man his size, will make his post-sumo life pretty miserable. Imagine what he could have been if he was only four inches taller?

[dingo 1,159]

4 hours ago, Morty said:

For me the fact that Takakeisho has even managed to get to a point where he has had two Yokozuna runs is staggering given he is only 5'8" tall in an open weight division, fighting some guys nearly a foot taller than him, and he's exclusively an oshi specialist. He's been Terunofuji's main rival during his second phase (ie return to Ozeki and Yok) despite the fact he's giving up 6 inches and 25 kilos to him. He's done it by piling on way more weight than his frame should carry, and as you say, going beyond what he is physically capable of. I reckon that's why he is never far away from getting injured. It must be hell on his knees. Just watching him climb on and off the dohyo this basho made me wince, and after one bout he looked like he was in so much pain he was about to cry. He is the ultimate overachiever given what nature has given him to work with and I have nothing but admiration for him as a result. I have no doubt all that damage he has done to his body in pursuit of something that should have been beyond a man his size, will make his post-sumo life pretty miserable. Imagine what he could have been if he was only four inches taller?

Wish I could give this 10 likes, but just the one will have to do. Hope that Takakeisho can heal up and be back stronger. Perhaps having another ozeki (or maybe even more after next basho) will take off some pressure from him to hold up the pride of the top ranks. On the other hand I think his  personality won't ever let go of the ambitions. 

Otherwise a very good basho with lots of excitement. I'm already looking forward to next basho to see who, if anyone can join Kiribayama and Takakeisho at ozeki, and what kind of threat will Asanoyama and Hakuoho pose to the top ranks. 

[dingo 1,159]

Seems like in all the senshuraku excitement the Hokuseiho train has at least temporarily hit a snag. I guess it's not surprising given that flabbergasting loss to makekoshi Kagayaki. 

[bettega 427]

These 16th day of basho always suck 

[Hoshotakamoto 256]

20 hours ago, dingo said:

Seems like in all the senshuraku excitement the Hokuseiho train has at least temporarily hit a snag. I guess it's not surprising given that flabbergasting loss to makekoshi Kagayaki. 

I see him 8-7 and 9-6'ing his way to Sekiwake, then making Ozeki with like 40 wins in three tournaments.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

1 hour ago, Hoshotakamoto said:

I see him 8-7 and 9-6'ing his way to Sekiwake, then making Ozeki with like 40 wins in three tournaments.

He's kryptonite to belt wrestlers with no game but yori. Oshi wrestlers who're better at generating momentum or trippers will have no trouble with him. That's two weaknesses that need to be sorted before he establishes himself in the joi. 

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

Three straight losses when suddenly matched up over his head against our newest Ozeki and two possible future ones killed his momentum, rightfully so. Hokuseiho is far from a matured, finished product. But the experienced gained by going up against the strongest Joi wrestlers this basho will only help him moving forward. 

[Hoshotakamoto 256]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

He's kryptonite to belt wrestlers with no game but yori. Oshi wrestlers who're better at generating momentum or trippers will have no trouble with him. That's two weaknesses that need to be sorted before he establishes himself in the joi. 

I don't have a time table for him to beat the Yokozuna but I predict that by this time next year Hokuseiho will be wiping the floor with Kiribayama.

[just_some_guy 256]

On 28/05/2023 at 21:14, Morty said:

after one bout he looked like he was in so much pain he was about to cry.

In fairness, Takakeisho's expression always looks (to me at least) like he's going to either cry or curse someone out.

On 29/05/2023 at 02:08, dingo said:

Seems like in all the senshuraku excitement the Hokuseiho train has at least temporarily hit a snag. I guess it's not surprising given that flabbergasting loss to makekoshi Kagayaki. 

I've become an anti-fan of Hokuseiho. His only skill seems to be "being really tall" and that's frustrating as heck to me. A "just stand up" tachiai and a "hold their belt until they're tired and then maybe move 'em out" strategy. If he develops some more skill he'll be unstoppable, otherwise he's Ichinojo 2.0 with all the discussions being about his potential instead of his accomplishments.

Despite all that he's still a puzzle to figure out for his opponents since his VERY high center of gravity makes him so hard to move. The leg trips we saw toward the end will be something he'll have to be wary of since they worked rather well.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

2 hours ago, just_some_guy said:

In fairness, Takakeisho's expression always looks (to me at least) like he's going to either cry or curse someone out.

I've become an anti-fan of Hokuseiho. His only skill seems to be "being really tall" and that's frustrating as heck to me. A "just stand up" tachiai and a "hold their belt until they're tired and then maybe move 'em out" strategy. If he develops some more skill he'll be unstoppable, otherwise he's Ichinojo 2.0 with all the discussions being about his potential instead of his accomplishments.

Despite all that he's still a puzzle to figure out for his opponents since his VERY high center of gravity makes him so hard to move. The leg trips we saw toward the end will be something he'll have to be wary of since they worked rather well.

You hater! Imagine all the beauty of countless 5-minute-long musubi no ichiban he is going to gift to us when he becomes Yokozuna! 

[Koorifuu 886]

3 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

You hater! Imagine all the beauty of countless 5-minute-long musubi no ichiban he is going to gift to us when he becomes Yokozuna! 

How about his yokozuna dohyo-iri, though? That's something I'd pay to watch some day.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

1 hour ago, Koorifuu said:

How about his yokozuna dohyo-iri, though? That's something I'd pay to watch some day.

Will it last a couple of hours? 

[robnplunder 974]

7 hours ago, just_some_guy said:

I've become an anti-fan of Hokuseiho. His only skill seems to be "being really tall" and that's frustrating as heck to me. A "just stand up" tachiai and a "hold their belt until they're tired and then maybe move 'em out" strategy. If he develops some more skill he'll be unstoppable, otherwise he's Ichinojo 2.0 with all the discussions being about his potential instead of his accomplishments.

 

Ichinojo 2.0 was also my exact impression.  But, he's just 21 years old.  He has time to improve.

I really like Ochiai's chances at Ozeki and more.  He is also just 21 years old and can run circles around Hokuseiho now.

 

[Reonito 1,335]

3 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

 

Ichinojo 2.0 was also my exact impression.  But, he's just 21 years old.  He has time to improve.

I really like Ochiai's chances at Ozeki and more.  He is also just 21 years old and can run circles around Hokuseiho now.

 

Ochiai is 19

[robnplunder 974]

4 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Ochiai is 19

Wow.  Even more impressive.

[808morgan 805]

On 15/05/2023 at 23:32, dingo said:

Agreed, and I'd posit that within Type B there's two types -- B1 who settles in nicely and will be a long-standing ozeki without (m)any hiccups. From this century I'd say Kaio, Kotooshu, Kotoshogiku, Goeido et al fit the bill. B2 are the ones who always seem to be borderline dropouts. Shodai, Tochinoshin, Miyabiyama et al. I guess you could say elevator ozeki in the sense that they always seem to be one makekoshi from demotion. Oh and I wouldn't count rank-ending injuries here since those are force majeure. 

Takakeisho is not Yokozuna material, he is like the Geek if anything, pretty one dimensional, just plows ahead and looses energy pretty quickly. 

[808morgan 805]

2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

 

Ichinojo 2.0 was also my exact impression.  But, he's just 21 years old.  He has time to improve.

I really like Ochiai's chances at Ozeki and more.  He is also just 21 years old and can run circles around Hokuseiho now.

 

He is kind of like Akebono, long legs. I'm sure he will get better, he made it up so fast because of that though. 

[808morgan 805]

On 29/05/2023 at 00:08, dingo said:

Seems like in all the senshuraku excitement the Hokuseiho train has at least temporarily hit a snag. I guess it's not surprising given that flabbergasting loss to makekoshi Kagayaki. 

Well Kagayaki is tall, Hokuseiho's sercret weapon doesn't work as well with him.

[808morgan 805]

On 28/05/2023 at 01:21, rhyen said:

Shades of Asashoryu slamming Harumafuji.

He does have an attitude like his uncle, he does remind me of him in some ways. 

[robnplunder 974]

47 minutes ago, 808morgan said:

Takakeisho is not Yokozuna material, he is like the Geek if anything, pretty one dimensional, just plows ahead and looses energy pretty quickly. 

Agree. His chance to become a Yokozuna has ended as there was a lack of quality competition hitherto.  That is changing with the emergence of maturing, stronger competition (Hoshoryu, Waka brothers, Kiribayama, Daieiso).  Also, Takakeisho has proven that he is injury prone.