Natsu 2023 discussion (results)

[ouflak 5]

9 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

 He made the yokozuna work very hard for his eighth title,....

Ninth title, right?

[Thorbjarn 214]

It's Terunofuji's 8th top division tournament win, he does have two Juryo Yusho aswell. 

[ryafuji 807]

2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

In my mind, Ura won.  He got robbed.

If that wasn't a dead body, then there's no point in having the rule at all.

[chishafuwaku 469]

What about the sanshos? No one advances with the predictions?

[Akinomaki 39,797]

6 minutes ago, chishafuwaku said:

What about the sanshos? No one advances with the predictions?

Shukunsho of course for Meisei, Kiribayama or Wakamotoharu for ginosho. Kiribayama one sansho, Wakamotoharu one if he wins. Asanoyama kantosho if he wins, possibly even unconditionally.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Akinomaki

[junsan 170]

Shame Asanoyama is facing Tsurugisho tomorrow. It should be against Kiribayama to decide jun yusho.

[Sakura 1,472]

8 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Sekiwake bashos and runs (since 1960):

Mitakeumi: 19 times (so far), longest run 5

Goeido: 15 times, longest run 14 (then Ozeki)

Wakanosato: 17 times, longest run 6

Sakahoko: 12 times, longest run 9

Kiyokuni: 12 times, longest run 6

Daigo: 10 times, longest run 7

There are 25 rikishi with at least 10 basho at Sekiwake since 1960. I haven't checked the runs, but as mentioned since Kaio and Kotomitsuki have long runs. Also on that list is Hasegawa, Sekiwake 21 times with runs of 8 and 7.

[Gurowake 3,922]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Is Nishikigi on the verge of a sanyaku promotion? I believe he's the only maegashira in the top 4 slots on both sides with a KK so far. 

He definitely needs to win still though; he's fairly unlikely to replace a 7-8 Kotonowaka with a 8-7 M4w, and someone else will have a better record to take Shodai's spot, at very least Abi or Ura, and possibly others.  If he wins, he'll need Abi to lose to take Shodai's spot, and if Abi wins, he'll need Kotonowaka to lose and have his 9-6 M4w be seen as good enough to take over the spot, which I don't think is 100%.

[Seregost 130]

7 hours ago, yohcun said:

Oh no, Hakuyozan. Not again

Sorry for him, but maybe he will understand now the danger of falling of the dohyo, and stop dame-oshing everyone

[Morty 1,480]

11 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

The GOAT with an oversized personality? Calls to mind Babe Ruth more so than Ted Williams. 

Does that make Asashoryu Ty Cobb?

[kedevash 41]

47 minutes ago, Seregost said:

Sorry for him, but maybe he will understand now the danger of falling of the dohyo, and stop dame-oshing everyone

You are wrong... he injured himself before falling off. His knee bukkle during his last step.

[Kishinoyama 582]

56 minutes ago, Morty said:

Does that make Asashoryu Ty Cobb?

Or the tennis equivalent of John McEnroe?

Edited May 27, 2023 by Kishinoyama

[Yamanashi 3,726]

54 minutes ago, Morty said:

Does that make Asashoryu Ty Cobb?

I give him the nod over Shoeless Joe Jackson.

[Koorifuu 886]

19 minutes ago, kedevash said:

You are wrong... he injured himself before falling off. His knee bukkle during his last step.

The point stands though. Buckling knees and injuries from falling off the dohyo are both very possible outcomes from those dameoshi that Hakuyozan is far from innocent of.

[Yamanashi 3,726]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

There are 25 rikishi with at least 10 basho at Sekiwake since 1960. I haven't checked the runs, but as mentioned since Kaio and Kotomitsuki have long runs. Also on that list is Hasegawa, Sekiwake 21 times with runs of 8 and 7.

Then help me out, because I've done something dumb but can't figure out why.

I looked in the db for consecutive Se ranks at five basho, then hand sorted after that. Neither Kaio or any of the others showed up.  What did I do wrong?

[lackmaker 432]

7 hours ago, Katooshu said:

People figuring out Hokuseiho with those trips a bit? It's one thing to have Kiribayama beat you like that, but Oho.....

Oho must surely have seen the previous loss and realised the vulnerability of that upright stance to a leg trip.

[kedevash 41]

1 minute ago, lackmaker said:

Oho must surely have seen the previous loss and realised the vulnerability of that upright stance to a leg trip.

His foot is there to be trip. And with his uprightstance you don't need a lot to make him fall. His defense is tremendous but this sotogake is a key to beat him.

[Yamanashi 3,726]

2 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

Oho must surely have seen the previous loss and realised the vulnerability of that upright stance to a leg trip.

The question is, did Hokuseiho figure that out?  You could almost see the wheels turning in Oho's mind as he was trying to figure out how a sotogake works, and he had a couple of tries while Hokuseiho was just teasing him with that big tree trunk leg.

[kedevash 41]

Tsurugisho seems to be a new man. His injuries seem to be gone and he can show his true potential now. As for Nishikigi, he is a really late bloomer. Both of them will not make past sanyaku for sure but now, they are a two forces to be reckoned with

[Yamanashi 3,726]

2 minutes ago, kedevash said:

Tsurugisho seems to be a new man. His injuries seem to be gone and he can show his true potential now. As for Nishikigi, he is a really late bloomer. Both of them will not make past sanyaku for sure but now, they are a two forces to be reckoned with

Just using the eye test on rank-and-filers this basho:

Nishikigi was ranked J13e two years ago this May, and has steadily risen since (10 of 13 KK with only one double digit wins).  He turned around a disastrous 1-6 start at M4w and beat an Ozeki, a Sekiwake and two Komosubi.  More amazing is that every opponent but Hokutofuji had a winning record against him.

Mitakeumi is showing some of the oomph that he had before his injury.  He actually survived the tachiai multiple times (something he hasn't done lately) and showed a little of his old pushing ability.

Hiradoumi was ranked at Ms6 two years ago, and has reached a new high rank in 8 of his last 13 tournaments.

Tsurugisho has entered Makuuchi five times from Juryo, and up to his last three matches (two Sekiwake and Asanoyama) he's shown tremendous energy and force against his opponents.

Oho has so many expectations pushing down on him because of his family tree, and he started the basho on the brink of demotion, but showed that he can at least thrive against the bottom third of the top division.

[ryafuji 807]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Then help me out, because I've done something dumb but can't figure out why.

I looked in the db for consecutive Se ranks at five basho, then hand sorted after that. Neither Kaio or any of the others showed up.  What did I do wrong?

Consecutive basho at Sekiwake are not necessarily all at Se. You should have included Sw as well. 

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Shukunsho of course for Meisei, Kiribayama or Wakamotoharu for ginosho. Kiribayama one sansho, Wakamotoharu one if he wins. Asanoyama kantosho if he wins, possibly even unconditionally.

They might be making it conditional for the winner of the Asanoyama - Tsurugisho match to receive kanto-sho. I think that for Asanoyama the NSK is going to have higher standards for him versus everyone else. Tsurugisho was doing good so he could get kanto-sho at 10-5

[Yamanashi 3,726]

Just now, ryafuji said:

Consecutive basho at Sekiwake are not necessarily all at Se. You should have included Sw as well. 

Ah, that's the problem; I put "Se" for "Sekiwake" .

[Gurowake 3,922]

1 hour ago, WAKATAKE said:

I think that for Asanoyama the NSK is going to have higher standards for him versus everyone else.

Well, it's not the NSK that decides on the sansho - it's journalists.  Still, your point remains.  We saw in 2017 how Tochinoshin and Tochiozan in consecutive basho got no love from the committee despite getting 12 wins, and they weren't former Ozeki (yet), just rikishi ranked well below where they should have been.  I wouldn't be surprised that Asanoyama gets no consideration for a sansho at all; he only went 1-2 against the sanyaku, beating only the lowest ranked who doesn't even have a KK.  If he had beaten at least Daieisho, it would be a clear he should get one, but it's less clear in the reality we have. 

[dingo 1,160]

Ouhou really noted the lesson from Kiribayama against Hokuseiho. Those long legs are easy to trip.

Have to say I didn't expect sick a comeback by Nishikigi, really well done. And not taking the easy way either, he beat lots of tough opponents.

Kotonowaka got a small refund for the shimpan decision that went against him the other day.

Did anyone also notice the English commentator (I think Raja Pradhan?) calling Shodai ozeki again accidentally. Old habits die hard.