Natsu 2023 discussion (results)

[Bunbukuchagama 677]

Just now, Kamitsuumi said:

To be fair, it's the same people.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. 

[Hankegami 412]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

You mean torikumi committee? Let's reserve ridiculing banzuke committee for off-season weeks when there is little else to do. 

18 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

To be fair, it's the same people.

17 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Really? I wasn't aware of that. 

Yep. Those exotic shimpan. Anyway, sorry for mixing up the committees, I went with the name more familiar to me. My Japanese is barely good enough to get the most cringe-worthy 'your Japanese is good' or perhaps even -God forbid -  'you just have to improve it a bit' whether I would ever attempt to speak anything. 'Torikumi' has yet to enter my standard sumo vocabulary, unfortunately. But I will gambarize, I promise.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Hankegami

[Yamanashi 3,689]

Down in Jonidan, three rikishi are 6-0 going into the final days: Hidano, Oshoryu, Satorufuji.

As I've mentioned before, the ultimate winner is almost always 1) a hot new product racing through Jonidan in a basho or two; 2) a veteran who fell down the banzuke due to kyujo and starts his trip back up with a quick mop-up session in Jd.

Here we have both Oshoryu (career high Ms7 and missing the last three basho, at Jd7), and Satorufuji (ex-team captain of Yaizu Sumo club and a vet of Amasumo who's in his second basho at Jd60). 

In addition, however, is Hidano, 32, who spent 11 years to reach Sd34; apparently injured, he's gone 10-18 since and competes at Jd43.  How do you classify him?

Oshoryu and Hidano are paired for day 13, while Satorufuji gets Jd40 Mogamizakura (17 years old, with a rare 46-39 W-L for a Shikihide wrestler).

[Highway 46]

Damn they giving us Terunofuji - Asanoyama tomorrow (today), really giving the fans what they want. Win or lose well done to Asa for getting himself back up to the musubi no ichiban.

[Chartorenji 235]

We got to talk about how good that July 2021 class has been. Mukainakano with a Sandanme Yusho, Kiryuko with a Makushita Yusho, Hitoshi with a Sandanme and Jonidan Yusho, and Miyagi near the top end of Makushita. The Jonokuchi winner hasn't even made it to Makushita yet either (Shunrai)

[rhyen 1,801]

Ochiai & Gonoyama demonstrating flexibility in their sumo when plan A (&B) fails. Bushozan is probably behind Ochiai in the promotion queue and joint with Atamifuji. 

[rhyen 1,801]

Hokuseiho has lost to Wakamotoharu, Hoshoryu & Kiribayama.

I would like to see how he bounces back from these defeats. 

[junsan 168]

This is the same Asanoyama as 2 years before. He's plateaued and there's no growth in his sumo.

[Leoben 120]

Asanoyama made it easy for Terunofuji. The gap between them continues to be like night and day.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Leoben

[yohcun 393]

Injured Takakeisho one win away from clearing kadoban.

Meisei, known for having a really fast and energetic tachiai.

Everyone knew what was coming. Except Meisei, somehow.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

Just now, yohcun said:

Injured Takakeisho one win away from clearing kadoban.

Meisei, known for having a really fast and energetic tachiai.

Everyone knew what was coming. Except Meisei, somehow.

Meisei didn't look particularly healthy after yesterday's bout either.

[Naganoyama 5,818]

3 hours ago, Chartorenji said:

We got to talk about how good that July 2021 class has been. Mukainakano with a Sandanme Yusho, Kiryuko with a Makushita Yusho, Hitoshi with a Sandanme and Jonidan Yusho, and Miyagi near the top end of Makushita. The Jonokuchi winner hasn't even made it to Makushita yet either (Shunrai)

When you say July 2021, do you mean May 2021?...

[Kaninoyama 1,663]

33 minutes ago, Leoben said:

Asanoyama made it easy for Terunofuji. The gap between them continues to be like night and day.

To be fair, the gap between a healthy Terunofuji and everyone else is also like night and day. 

47 minutes ago, junsan said:

This is the same Asanoyama as 2 years before. He's plateaued and there's no growth in his sumo.

Asanoyama has done fine in his return to Makuuchi. 10-3 and right in the yusho mix before losing to Terunofuji today. 

As Mainoumi commented today on the broadcast, he's been away from Makuuchi for two years, most of it during covid, during which he had no capable training partners and competition far below his level for most of that span. Has his sumo evolved? Not really. But what he has was enough to be a solid Ozeki with a shot at making Yokozuna prior to his suspension.

[RabidJohn 1,644]

It may not feel like it, but that was Chiyoshoma's 1st henka in ages...

Wakamotoharu was channelling Chiyonofuji today - Tsurugisho was beat before the tachi-ai.

No doubt about Kiribayama's promotion now. I can see Kirishima's technique shining through.

Bit of an honour for Asanoyama to be meeting the yokozuna so early, wasn't it? I would've expected him to get Kiribayama 1st.
His style of sumo just plays straight into Terunofuji's game, though. Reminds me a bit of Tochinoshin vs Hakuho.

[Rocks 1,805]

2 hours ago, junsan said:

This is the same Asanoyama as 2 years before. He's plateaued and there's no growth in his sumo.

If you're going to plateau in sumo Ozeki isn't too bad a place to stop.

[dada78641 884]

Yeah, I'm actually feeling positive about Asanoyama given how he's had a rough time clawing his way back to where he was before. And by that I mean he hasn't had his usual level of training opportunities. I would expect him to slide backwards a little bit because of something like that but he seems to have maintained his previous level of skill pretty well.

[Rocks 1,805]

2 hours ago, yohcun said:

Injured Takakeisho one win away from clearing kadoban.

Meisei, known for having a really fast and energetic tachiai.

Everyone knew what was coming. Except Meisei, somehow.

if you mean a henka, it wasn't. They met chest to chest. All Takakeisho has is pushing and when he does it he uses his whole body. He pushed right and his body goes left. Meisei didn't get a grip. Meisei loses when  he doesn't. 

[Tochinofuji 364]

3 hours ago, junsan said:

This is the same Asanoyama as 2 years before. He's plateaued and there's no growth in his sumo.

I think we need to give him a bit more time before we can say anything about a plateau. It's been two years since he's been competing in Makuuchi, so even maintaining his previous level is an accomplishment. If in a year he's still walking the same walk, we can properly assess maybe that's just his path with nothing beyond. But for a return basho in which the lone yokozuna has been looking on form, that is hardly a loss that bears reading into. 

[Akinomaki 39,580]

16 hours ago, Hankegami said:

Yep. Those exotic shimpan. Anyway, sorry for mixing up the committees, I went with the name more familiar to me. My Japanese is barely good enough to get the most cringe-worthy 'your Japanese is good' or perhaps even -God forbid -  'you just have to improve it a bit' whether I would ever attempt to speak anything. 'Torikumi' has yet to enter my standard sumo vocabulary, unfortunately. But I will gambarize, I promise.

It's only one committee of the shimpan and 2 types of compilation conferences they are doing, torikumi and banzuke, daily torikumi hensei kaigi for each basho day and one banzuke hensei kaigi on the Wednesday after the basho.

[Koorifuu 860]

6 hours ago, Chartorenji said:

We got to talk about how good that July 2021 class has been. Mukainakano with a Sandanme Yusho, Kiryuko with a Makushita Yusho, Hitoshi with a Sandanme and Jonidan Yusho, and Miyagi near the top end of Makushita. The Jonokuchi winner hasn't even made it to Makushita yet either (Shunrai)

I've sung their praises quite a bit, mostly on the The Wall thread. It's one of two recent shindeshi crops that's gotten my attention for being exceptionally strong all around.

The other's Hatsu '22, with a career record sum of 252-118-17! (Dragged down because of ONE particular member who's 29-27).

[Leoben 120]

3 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

To be fair, the gap between a healthy Terunofuji and everyone else is also like night and day. 

True. It looked like Teru's got hurt yesterday so I thought there was potential for an upset but he made it look easy.

[junsan 168]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

If you're going to plateau in sumo Ozeki isn't too bad a place to stop.

Sure-fire Ozeki but that's not the point.

[dingo 1,133]

Nishikigi, Abi, Ura and Tamawashi all looking quite likely to eke out a kachikoshi after a slow start. Kotonowaka and Tobizaru also have that idea but their job is tougher since they need two wins out of the two remaining bouts. Shodai is in the same position but after today's bout I'm not so hopeful....

Wakamotoharu is keeping up a possible ozeki run, but needs to win both remaining bouts to give himself a small cushion for the next basho. I'm cheering for him. 

Daieisho on the other hand gave away an inside hold to Mitakeumi and thus also his ozeki perspective for at least this basho. Next basho he'll have to do a bit better if he really wants to get there. 

Takakeisho did what was wholly expected of a hobbled ozeki one win from kachikoshi. Hope he can get better by next basho, or even takes next basho off if he needs to. 

 

 

[Hankegami 412]

Well, Day 13 is gone and I see that everyone jumped out from the Asanoyama bandwagon. Poor lad. Well, that's in part because everyone is looking for the next Japanese Yokozuna, home and abroad. To be honest, Asanoyama for himself is not that bad of a bet. He's a big man with a strong yotsu-zumo. However, Terunofuji today just showed that he's not good enough (yet?). I would be not surprised that Asanoyama manages to improve his shape now that he's going to join the san'yaku once again.

I would actually like to see a Kiribayama vs. Asanoyama showoff (hope in senshuraku). Because - let's be honest - Kiribayama is the next big thing now. He showed plenty that he became capable to stay in Yusho contention, and some fan are actually rooting for a back-to-back Sekiwake Yusho (well-known requirement to become Sekizuna ). Seeing whether he's able to put Asanoyama on the dirt would be a good smell test for him. Also because everyone up there should better hurry, rumors are that a couple of young bloods are going to be in Makuuchi soon.

Silly thinking: Hakuho first predicted Asanoyama to be the next Yokozuna, and yesterday he gave advice (via NSK box) to Kiribayama on how to make the next step to Yokozuna. If them both are going to fail hard, we will all know who jinxed them.

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

It's only one committee of the shimpan and 2 types of compilation conferences they are doing, torikumi and banzuke, daily torikumi hensei kaigi for each basho day and one banzuke hensei kaigi on the Wednesday after the basho.

Yes, I already figured that out long ago although I did not know the technicalities. My post was about more about the fact that I am not overly familiar with the original Japanese terminology.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Hankegami

[Gooner 39]

Kiribayama looked so nervous in the first week of this basho. That's all gone now. He fights with the pride of an ozeki.