Natsu 2023 discussion (results)

[Octofuji 228]

25 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I feel like he's primarily an oshi guy and he hasn't tried to dictate that enough. He has enough yotsu skills to have gotten away with grappling when lower on the banzuke, but not at this level (yet).

I was convinced he would get his kachikoshi without difficulty having looked so dominant last time. I thought I'd read somewhere he was injured but I can't find any evidence for it now.

He's been matched up against mainly yotsu wrestlers so far, it will be interesting to see how he does against Takakeisho tomorrow.

[Octofuji 228]

13 hours ago, rhyen said:

Shiden gets his Juryo re-promotion. 
Ochiai can use force manoeuvre on Hidenoumi.

Really chuffed for Shiden.

That was an amazing recovery by Ochiai, Hidenoumi couldn't quite believe what happened. If Onosato is better than this guy then things are looking really promising :)

[Reonito 923]

12 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

I was convinced he would get his kachikoshi without difficulty having looked so dominant last time. I thought I'd read somewhere he was injured but I can't find any evidence for it now.

He's been matched up against mainly yotsu wrestlers so far, it will be interesting to see how he does against Takakeisho tomorrow.

Yeah that should be a better matchup for him if he isn't too intimidated

[Reonito 923]

4 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

Really chuffed for Shiden.

That was an amazing recovery by Ochiai, Hidenoumi couldn't quite believe what happened. If Onosato is better than this guy then things are looking really promising :)

Elsewhere, I described that escape as "Hakuho-like"

[Bunbukuchagama 347]

10 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Elsewhere, I described that escape as "Hakuho-like"

I thought it was Onosato who was destined to win 50 yusho? I am confused...

[Jakusotsu 5,193]

10 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I thought it was Onosato who was destined to win 50 yusho? I am confused...

Congrats, you inspired a poll.

[Yubinhaad 10,973]

Look out Juryo - Daishomaru has awoken from his slumber with his first kachi-koshi since September 2021. Eight make-koshi after that, four each side of an unlucky COVID kyujo, missing the last bout after he had recovered from an 0-3 start to 3-3.

Meanwhile, last basho saw Tanji fall one win short in his last chance at being in Makushita as a 16-year-old, but he won today to secure promotion for Nagoya, when he'll be just over 17.

[RabidJohn 1,380]

1 hour ago, Octofuji said:

I was convinced he would get his kachikoshi without difficulty having looked so dominant last time. I thought I'd read somewhere he was injured but I can't find any evidence for it now.

He's been matched up against mainly yotsu wrestlers so far, it will be interesting to see how he does against Takakeisho tomorrow.

He's in the joi without a proper mage, so he's done bloody well so far. I'm impressed.
It's not at all unusual for fast risers to hit a wall first time in the joi: how Kinbozan learns from the experience and bounces back is what really matters.

[Kashunowaka 289]

2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

There was a person in the crowd today with a Chiyoshoma banner. That's two of us I suppose. At this rate we might need need to use all four seats of the Kia Picanto for next year's fan club outing.

If all four seats are taken, I could always travel in the boot of the car.

[Kaito 233]

2 hours ago, Reonito said:

I feel like he's primarily an oshi guy and he hasn't tried to dictate that enough. He has enough yotsu skills to have gotten away with grappling when lower on the banzuke, but not at this level (yet).

My thoughts exactly. In thrusting battles, he looks amazing, outreaching opponents and moving them back easily without overcommitting. Against competent belt fighters, he too often steps into their grip and then shows little ability to compete.

[Katooshu 2,713]

2 hours ago, Octofuji said:

I was convinced he would get his kachikoshi without difficulty having looked so dominant last time. I thought I'd read somewhere he was injured but I can't find any evidence for it now.

He's been matched up against mainly yotsu wrestlers so far, it will be interesting to see how he does against Takakeisho tomorrow.

There were definitely reports he was injured prior to the basho, but it was noted that it wasn't serious and he was expected to recover well ahead of time.

He hasn't really struck me as performing like someone who is injured - more like someone who runs out of ideas vs particular opponents at the level he's now facing. Considering the big jump in rank and his relative lack of experience, it's not too unexpected for me. Other fast climbers from the college ranks like Mita, Asa, Shodai, Hokutofuji, and Endo all hit the wall before reaching sanyaku too, and they had far more amateur experience to draw on than Kinbo does (he pretty much started when he began college). Three of them became ozeki.

I think he's got the physical tools needed to beat good yotsu opponents on the belt eventually, but he'll need to work on his technique and ring sense to get it done more consistently and not have these moments where he looks clueless.

Edited May 22 by Katooshu

[Morty 1,433]

5 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Kinbo's greenness showing at this rank vs good yotsu opponents. When an opponent gets a hold of him and he can't get an inside grip with either hand straight away he panics, flailing, going upright, and reaching over the top to try to get outside grips, resulting in him giving up a morozashi and having no leverage to resist effectively. Exact same thing vs Sadanoumi and Nishikifuji.

Yep, he's been shown up in a number of bouts by experienced quality wrestlers who know how to exploit opportunities given to them. It shows how significant the jump in quality is between the top and the bottom of the Maegashira ranks

[Yarimotsu 345]

3 hours ago, Katooshu said:

it's not too unexpected for me. Other fast climbers from the college ranks like Mita, Asa, Shodai, Hokutofuji, and Endo all hit the wall before reaching sanyaku too, and they had far more amateur experience to draw on than Kinbo does (he pretty much started when he began college). Three of them became ozeki.

Exactly this. Why is Kinbozan losing to the likes of Sadanoumi? Probably because the strength difference is small and the experience difference is 3 years of sumo vs 25+ years of sumo.

[Kaninoyama 1,433]

Kinbozan is basically Osunaarashi right now. Made it to this point based on his strength and athleticism and minimal sumo experience. How far he goes beyond will depend on gaining actual sumo skills. 

[Benevolance 2,356]

And whether he can avoid crashing a car at a ski resort with an expired driver's license and then lying to police and the kyokai about who was driving.

[Yamanashi 3,248]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

And whether he can avoid crashing a car at a ski resort with an expired driver's license and then lying to police and the kyokai about who was driving.

That's quite a needle to thread, but I think he can do it.

[WAKATAKE 2,412]

On 21/05/2023 at 15:59, Reonito said:

At the moment, I have 10 wrestlers ahead of Enho in the demotion queue by the numbers (although some of them have wrestled quite a bit better and so are more likely to improve their position), plus the two retirees of course.

With Enho going kyujo he is definitely in danger now

[Reonito 923]

9 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

With Enho going kyujo he is definitely in danger now

There are 3 spots open before we get to him, and another likely one in Tsushimanada, but it might take something like this to save him.

[rhyen 1,707]

Chiyosakae lost by a losing technique つき手

[Katooshu 2,713]

Surprised they called it that, I thought he was pretty clearly off balance from the hard shove from Kitanowaka.

On another note, Ochiai has some serious craftiness to him. I thought Bushozan lost balance on his own, but replay shows Ochiai using his foot to push Bush's legs out from him. Looks like he has some serious survival skills, though perhaps used them more in the last 2 days than he'd like.

Edited May 23 by Katooshu

[Kaninoyama 1,433]

Impressive win by Hokuseiho against Meisei. Literally on his tiptoes on the edge of the dohyo and Meisei still couldn't force him out. 

[rhyen 1,707]

Am I guessing that Takayasu chose to return on day 11 after he confirmed that he will not be drawn against the top 6 rikishi in the banzuke?

Edited May 24 by rhyen

[RabidJohn 1,380]

Hokuseiho surviving the Meisei onslaught that gave Terunofuji his only loss so far was pretty impressive.
I'd like to see a better tachi-ai and more driving forwards, and I'm certain I'm far from alone in that, but the kid's already got what it takes to reach the top. 
I'm not switching trains, but I can't deny the Hokuseiho train is racing up behind the one I'm on.

I loved how Ura was already gracefully pirouetting back to his side as Hokutofuji hit the dirt.

Kiribayama beating his fellow ozeki aspirants looks really good.
Wakamotoharu landing on his head like that looked really bad - proper made me wince, that did.

Kinbozan should have a rosy future if he can remain injury free while he garners the necessary experience to deal with all the top dogs.

Kotonowaka gave us a very good musubi no ichiban today, but it can't have been great on the yokozuna's knees...

 

[dingo 822]

The Chiyoshoma/Kia Picanto fanclub had something to cheer for today. Very nice throw.

Asanoyama seemed to have some fingers in Hiradoumi's mage, but I guess the shimpan didn't think so.

Meisei needed just a few cm more in height to maintain contact with the dohyo and push Hokuseiho out. Maybe high heels for the next time?

Shodai's tachiai today presented a perfect target for Abi's nodowa, and he didn't let the generous offer slip.

Kotonowaka had a really bad tachiai against Terunofuji so it's somewhat of a miracle that he managed to make the bout competitive. Just needed a little bit more to get the win. 

[lackmaker 414]

16 hours ago, Octofuji said:

He's been matched up against mainly yotsu wrestlers so far, it will be interesting to see how he does against Takakeisho tomorrow

It certainly was.