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Reonito

New Juryo for Haru

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Also, I doubt there are any rules set in stone for this sort of thing.  They may not do the same thing now that they did with Shimoda.  I think a normal Ms15 7-0 is as guaranteed as it can get by rule, and they will likely bend over backwards to make sure of those promotions, but the pairings are made such that Ms15TD is lower in rank than Ms15w, so it's reasonable to think that the promotion for Ms15TD is less automatic and more based on banzuke luck.  All we really have precedent for now is that 4-3 Ms1w > 7-0 MS15TD > 5-2 Ms5e, but the former precedent is so old that it's hard to say it's necessarily still in effect.

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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Shimoda was passed over in favour of 5-2 Ms1e and 4-3 Ms1w, just for context, so I don't think Asashosakari's point goes as far as that extreme. Unless you take into account the idea that the NSK bodged that particular banzuke and Shimoda should have gone up instead of the Ms1w.

As a full-fledged Ms15 he surely would have; 7-0's, even very low-ranked ones, have gone up instead of Ms1w 4-3's many times. The worst case was after Hatsu 1977, which AFAIK caused the cutoff to be changed from top 20 to top 15.

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7 hours ago, rhyen said:

Why not (join Miyagino and beat up everyone else)?

you are guaranteed to avoid your fellow TDs (high ceiling potentiates), jumpstart another Dewanoumi/Fujishima/Futagoyama/Mushashigawa domination?

do they want to be Akebono fighting against everyone? Or Takanohana/Wakanohana3?

I was speaking as a fan of the sport, not what is necessarily best for Nakamura.

Now that we know that a 7-0 gets you promoted from Ms15 as well as Ms10, I really do think that winning two tournaments should put you at Ms5. Doesn't make sense to me that losing in a final only gets you Sd100, winning the final gets you Ms15, but winning two tournaments is only Ms10

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4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Helifino.   Some of the Amasumo posters like @mikawa and @Katooshu might be able to enlighten us both.

Nakamura is an aggressive and very powerful competitor, more like Ochiai than Oshoma. He usually starts with oshi blasts, and if he doesn't win immediately using those will typically yorikiri his opponent straight out. Most of his matches are decided within 2 or 3 seconds and rarely does he get involved in sustained bouts like Oshoma does.

He can win using virtually any technique though, and also applies his power effectively with throws, pulldowns, tsukiotoshi, etc.

Just a sampling of his wins vs current pros: Kawazoe (yoritaoshi), Ochiai (uwatenage), Hatsuyama (okuridashi), Otani (oshitaoshi), Kanzaki (yorikiri, oshitaoshi, oshidashi), Kitawnowaka (oshitaoshi) Hitoshi (oshidashi), Tochimusashi (uwatenage), Kinbozan (okuridashi, yoritaoshi)

Edited by Katooshu
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3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Their self-imposed top 15 ranks rule just specifies that those are guys who must be promoted, which I've always taken to mean that they'll go to extreme lengths to ensure it happens including passing over other highly deserving candidates (e.g. Ms1e kachikoshi) or demoting juryo rikishi who otherwise wouldn't be demoted, or possibly even break the juryo capacity for one tournament.

With the speculations about Ochiai I read that the rule is something like "has to be promoted, if the banzuke situation allows it" (can't find the article now) and AFAIK the 7-0 is equal here to Ms1e kachikoshi, but not above. If only one spot is available it may depend on the rank of the 7-0 one if he or the ms1e guy gets it. The article only mentioned that Ochiai was seen as immediately next in line (jun-zuru) to Ms1e kachikoshi.

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48 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Just a sampling of his wins vs current pros: Kawazoe (yoritaoshi), Ochiai (uwatenage), Hatsuyama (okuridashi), Otani (oshitaoshi), Kanzaki (yorikiri, oshitaoshi, oshidashi), Kitawnowaka (oshitaoshi) Hitoshi (oshidashi), Tochimusashi (uwatenage)

The arrival of Nakamura is starting to feel like a puroresu "the monster is coming" storyline. I'm very excited. 

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13 hours ago, Godango said:

The arrival of Nakamura is starting to feel like a puroresu "the monster is coming" storyline. I'm very excited. 

A bit scary after seeing how good Ochiai looked. 

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Nakamura does indeed look daunting, especially now that Ochiai proved himself too good for upper makushita. And Nakamura was clearly the superior guy not too long ago... Vastly superior to lots of strong guys, for that matter.

But we could also think about it from the complete opposite perspective;

Ochiai is a few years younger than Nakamura, so in theory there should be some more room for progression there. Additionally, Ochiai had a few Miyagino stays in which he could perfect his craft before he joined. All the while, Nakamura's stalling in a world where he's a man among children.
The gap between them might've changed.

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The last time they did sumo together was at the October 2022 Kokutai. They each won all their matches, but Nakamura was more convincing and Ochiai withdrew from the individual tournament due to injury. I suspect at the moment Nakamura is still at least as capable as Ochiai, if not more, though going 7-0 rather than 6-1 in high makushita involves an element of luck that would make me hesitant to think he'll just breeze through his own debut with a zensho.

It's worth noting that Nakamura's also 3 years older than Ochiai, which tends to be a significant advantage when you're talking about results of competitors in their late teens or early twenties. Many rikishi, even those who've done sumo for a long time, improve significantly between those years, so Ochiai may be further from his peak.

But they are both beasts and will do very well in ozumo. Who knows, maybe they'll be stablemates soon and helping each other develop.

Edited by Katooshu
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