Kyushu 2022 discussion (results)

[Koorifuu 438]

15 minutes ago, maglor said:

Given how packed the sanyaku is plus the banzuke committee's dislike of creating new sanyaku spots, it's actually much less unlikely now.

To use Takayasu as an example here, let's say he goes 13-2Y. We have mountains of precedent that he will only be moved to Komusubi as long as the Sekiwake spots stay full.

Then a 10-5 next basho shouldn't be strong enough to force another Sekiwake spot as long as they're still full(Hoshoryu promotion was COVID shenanigans, otherwise it's usually 11 to force).

So in this hypothetical Takayasu would have 23 wins over 2 basho and still be at Komusubi. What happens if he puts up another big score?

 

Not that I'm saying I expect Takayasu to do this, but the way the committee has treated opening new Sekiwake spots it's absolutely possible for a M1 to put up 23+ wins in 2 basho and still be at Komusubi for the 3rd.

I'm not fully sold on that, to be honest. I still believe they would force an extra sekiwake slot, no matter how many there were. When similar situations arose, only 2 out of 25 rikishi were kept at komusubi and the latest was poor Tochinowaka in 1991. I guess 21 wins across two basho in M1 and K somehow weren't enough to convince those in charge of ozeki promotions to take notice.

Do we have anyone here who remembers whether he was officially deemed to be on an ozeki run by then? 

[Reonito 597]

1 hour ago, Koorifuu said:

I'm not fully sold on that, to be honest. I still believe they would force an extra sekiwake slot, no matter how many there were. When similar situations arose, only 2 out of 25 rikishi were kept at komusubi and the latest was poor Tochinowaka in 1991. I guess 21 wins across two basho in M1 and K somehow weren't enough to convince those in charge of ozeki promotions to take notice.

Do we have anyone here who remembers whether he was officially deemed to be on an ozeki run by then? 

And of course, 11 wins at komusubi forces an extra sekiwake slot when one isn't available, so it's perfectly fine if 11+ at M followed by 10 at K and getting stuck there doesn't qualify as two basho of a run. It's supposed to be hard to make ozeki.

[maglor 70]

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

I'm not fully sold on that, to be honest. I still believe they would force an extra sekiwake slot, no matter how many there were. When similar situations arose, only 2 out of 25 rikishi were kept at komusubi and the latest was poor Tochinowaka in 1991. I guess 21 wins across two basho in M1 and K somehow weren't enough to convince those in charge of ozeki promotions to take notice.

Do we have anyone here who remembers whether he was officially deemed to be on an ozeki run by then? 

The thing is all of these results are 2003 and before, which is also before they heavily reduced extra sanyaku spots.

It's so much easier pre-2006

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=M&form1_year=1980-2022&form2_rank=K2

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by maglor

[WAKATAKE 2,338]

One slot is now guaranteed open thanks to the retirement of Chiyotairyu. Terutsuyoshi is 99% going down too so that's two wrestlers getting the chance for the top division

[Seiyashi 3,320]

Chiyoshōma seems to have, at the very least, barked his knee. He doesn't appear in pain, but the knee doesn't seem to be able to hold weight. He looks a lot better in the hanamichi, though.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Tigerboy1966 951]

Looks like Terunofuji will be y-o in January. Mitakeumi has looked awful in the last 2 days and probably should be nursing his injuries rather than competing... but this is sumo. 4 wins from 7 shouldn't be a difficult task for an ozeki but Shodai has so far faced only one sanyaku opponent, and he lost that bout.

I think Mike at ST will have some fun describing today's match between Takayasu and Kiribayama. I am sure there is an innocent explanation but viewed through "cynicism goggles" it would look very dodgy.

[Leo C 49]

I liked Ichinojo vs Meisei. Maybe I'm mistaken but halfway through it seemed as if they were more interested in slapping each other in the face and not really winning or anything, which is my type of sumo.

Azumaryu has shown some fire this basho. I hope he gets his long-awaited makuuchi kachi koshi.

[Hankegami 262]

A few considerations on Day 8.

The runner-up group is not slowing down. Both Takayasu and Hoshoryu won convincingly against unyielding foes such as the likes of Kiribayama and Tobizaru. The Monkey in particular was technically overpowered but tried to win a match set on the belt nonetheless. For a second I even believed he could pull that off. Down the Maakuchi slums, Abi walked past Endo and Oho managed to win against a very belligerent Atamifuji in the Battle of the Greenhorns. Main highlight for tomorrow is Sadanoumi vs. Hoshoryu, 3-2 record but with a set of three straight wins for the spry 35-years-old in green.

Takakeisho keeps chasing with 6-2 alongside a surprising Nishikifuji. Unfortunately, the latter will be fed to Takayasu (0-2) tomorrow, while 'Keisho will get poor Tobizaru, once again before a difficult opponent. There is therefore a chance that 'Keisho will remain sole runner-up tomorrow, unless one of the leading four will drop one.

Now, the Ozeki prospects. Mitakeumi is dismaying. He lost three bouts in a row by now and tomorrow will face Wakamotoharu, a belt man (his kryptonite). Perhaps I should praise him to not have done a henka against Kotonowaka, his worst foe to face (1-4, now 1-5), but going straight like he did was suicidal. Wakatakakage bounced back easily instead. He's not going to be promoted Ozeki after this basho for certain but if he keeps winning he will have a good jumping base for January.

Last, we reached a point of the basho where we can also enjoy the "who is going MK next?" game. Terutsuyoshi went 0-8 and as M16e with seven days to go we can be pretty sure that Juryo is going to be rather salty this January. Takarafuji also just collected his 0-8 although perhaps he deserved a bit better (there have been a few ungenerous calls against him). He's high enough to be safe from demotion is he manages to rake up a few wins though. Tomorrow's saddest bout will be between 1-7 Tamawashi and Ura. Precedents favor the Old Fox (4-2 but Ura got one by fusen), but he's clearly not at the top of his game. By the way, kudos to Ura for his first win today against Ichinojo (another guy not doing good with 2-6).

52 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Looks like Terunofuji will be y-o in January. Mitakeumi has looked awful in the last 2 days and probably should be nursing his injuries rather than competing... but this is sumo. 4 wins from 7 shouldn't be a difficult task for an ozeki but Shodai has so far faced only one sanyaku opponent, and he lost that bout.

I had the same thought, although Shodai is no new to great surprises. He "awkwardly" got serious since the beginning this basho instead of waking up directly on week 2, but his results have been wavering. Tomorrow he will face Daieisho, a difficult client for him (8-13), so chances are he will drop another one. A good 'ole 8-7 is still fully within his range though.

But surely no back-up will come from the Sekiwake: Mitakeumi is failing hard his 10-5 goal, Wakatakakage needs another basho, and same goes for Hoshoryu even if he gets a 14-1Y (9+8+14 = 31). It's up to either Shodai or Terunofuji to fill the spot.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Hankegami

[Seiyashi 3,320]

Bout of the day is Hōshōryū-Tobizaru, for sure. Those two really gave it everything, especially Tobizaru.

Takayasu-Kiribayama was... interesting. Most charitably, Kiribayama needs a bit more of a killer instinct. Takayasu was lucky to get away with that one.

 

[Jakusotsu 4,840]

3 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I think Mike at ST will have some fun describing today's match between Takayasu and Kiribayama. I am sure there is an innocent explanation but viewed through "cynicism goggles" it would look very dodgy.

More dodgy than Okinoumi-Azumaryu two days ago?

[Tigerboy1966 951]

2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

5 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I think Mike at ST will have some fun describing today's match between Takayasu and Kiribayama. I am sure there is an innocent explanation but viewed through "cynicism goggles" it would look very dodgy.

More dodgy than Okinoumi-Azumaryu two days ago?

The dodginess quotient in today's match was a 9.3 as verified by the Tinfoil Hat Academy of New Brunswick.

Points to notice:

1 Kiribayama twice had Takayasu side-on and did absolutely nothing to capitalise on the opportunities.

2 One of the best belt wrestlers on the planet never moved his hands anywhere south of Takayasu's chest

3 That extended nodowa which did nothing other than say "here's my arm, please grab it"

4 The finish where Kiribayama reacted to a relatively* innocuous shove like Shawn Michaels overselling Hulk Hogan's offense at SummerSlam 2005.

*"relatvely innocuous"... if Takayasu did that to me I would have gone flying into the middle of next week, but I'm a fat 56 year old with the muscle mass of an elderly guinea pig.

 

[Koorifuu 438]

Kudos to Chiyonokuni and Bushozan for failing to bring any sumo to the dohyo yesterday, focusing instead on a good old-fashioned bar room brawl that Kokkai would be proud of.

[Reonito 597]

1 hour ago, Koorifuu said:

Kudos to Chiyonokuni and Bushozan for failing to bring any sumo to the dohyo yesterday, focusing instead on a good old-fashioned bar room brawl that Kokkai would be proud of.

TBF that's always been Chiyonokuni's brand of sumo

[Koorifuu 438]

42 minutes ago, Reonito said:

TBF that's always been Chiyonokuni's brand of sumo

A brand that we're apparently running of time to witness...

[Kotomiyama 104]

My man Hoshoryu is on a roll. He is gradually realising his potential, using a variety of techniques and making less mistakes. I hope that this basho will be the beginning of an Ozeki run.

[Rocks 1,722]

Yusho race is shaping up. Takayasu looks good having already faced the Sanyaku and Hoshoryu, but he is Takayasu. Hoshoryu looks very solid but has the Sanyaku, except for Komosubi, ahead. Takakeisho lurks. I don't see the others with 2 losses or less getting to the end with less than 2 losses which I think is what it may take. Abi could but coming off an injury but  I doubt it. His record is mostly about who he's faced so far I think.

[Gospodin 162]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

TBF that's always been Chiyonokuni's brand of sumo

IMHO Chiyonokuni was the most talented of the Chiyo gang, but fighting back from so many injuries he never came to fully realize his potential. Given his history, it is remarkable he is still carrying on quite strongly.

[Katooshu 2,337]

Otani told off again, how many times is that now? This time it looked like he got a talking to over his hair - not slicked back enough? 

[Gurowake 3,434]

On 15/11/2022 at 16:52, Eternallyround said:

I was hoping to see Kotonowaka perform better he’s done so far. He’s been in the joi-jin since May and had good results. Hopefully he’ll shake off this 0-3 start

Indeed he has, now at 5-3.

[Yamanashi 2,821]

Oshoma plays a defensive brand of sumo, containing his opponent until he can figure out how to defeat him.  Thus we need a surprise in today's match against Hokuseiho; when the tree does his stand-up tachiai, I wish Oshoma would just plow at him top speed and knock him into a shimpan.  That might start some discussions about "Plan B" in the Miyagino camp.

[Eikokurai 3,413]

Hey guys. I doubt you noticed or cared, but I’ve not been around so far this basho. I’ve been watching the vids on YT, but been crazy busy at work this past week and had some stuff going on in my personal life too, so not really had the mood for sumo. Anyway, deadlines have now passed and things are a bit quieter today, so I’m slacking off and finally watching sumo live. I don’t have much else to say right now, just wanted to say hi. Kind of hoping Oho can defy his usual form and stay strong in week 2 to stay in the yusho race though. Would be good to see him and Hoshoryu in a face-off for the trophy, a sort of Sumo Pedigree Playoff.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Eikokurai

[Kaninoyama 1,255]

Abi and Takayasu losing in succession is not making my day any brighter. 

[Akinomaki 34,263]

I had a slight nightmare while awake when I saw in the headlines that Taiho had his first yusho in Kyushu and Oho being alone in the lead till Hoshoryu ended this - I hope my prediction won't come true in that fashion

On 13/11/2022 at 09:45, Akinomaki said:

Abi doesn't want to get mentioned as a yusho hope

- I think it's time again for another first yusho by a lower rank.

I had hoped for this other one with 3 letters

Edited November 21, 2022 by Akinomaki

[Eikokurai 3,413]

Were those tears in Mitakeumi’s eyes or was it just the lighting playing tricks? He can’t afford another loss now …

[Eikokurai 3,413]

1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

Were those tears in Mitakeumi’s eyes or was it just the lighting playing tricks? He can’t afford another loss now …

And Shodai wore his disappointment on his face too. Anguished expression as soon as he realized he was beat and then sat looking very annoyed with himself after the bout. 4-5 for him.