Kyushu 2022 discussion (results)

[Seiyashi 4,071]

On 28/11/2022 at 23:55, nagora said:

Henka are disappointing. It's as simple as that. They're not skilful and they're not entertaining in some other way, so the crowd generally is bored and fans of the loser are annoyed, only the supporters of the winner are happy (and not even all of them). So they leave at best a feeling of anti-climax and at worse an ill-defined feeling of cheating.

As long as they are enforcing the "touch the ground" rule on the tachiai most of the time then it will be effective. If you go back to Chiyonofuji's day you'll see plenty of bouts where they basically start by waving at the floor and are upright from the off; there's no pretence of actually touching down.

I think the only exception to this is a hassōtobi henka (vertical jump over the opponent). Visually entertaining, and usually it's only smaller rikishi who can pull it off and who generally get a free pass on henka anyway. 

[Eternallyround 12]

On 21/11/2022 at 10:22, Gurowake said:

Indeed he has, now at 5-3.

He ended up with a goog result, should be promoted to komusubi for next basho

[sumojoann 1,256]

7 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I think the only exception to this is a hassōtobi henka (vertical jump over the opponent). Visually entertaining, and usually it's only smaller rikishi who can pull it off and who generally get a free pass on henka anyway. 

Interesting information about the hassou-tobi on the SF Glossary.  It mentioned that a rikishi named Hayateumi used it.  I found this old YT video of one of his bouts but my browser is so old, it won't allow me to watch the video.  Does it show him using the hassou-tobi?  

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by sumojoann
I decided not to delete this post to avoid confusion.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Unfortunately no, it's quite a standard "stand up and go" tachiai of that era.

In recent memory, only Enhō and Takanoyama have done hassōtobi, if my memory serves me right. Mainoumi also seems to have done a couple.

EDIT: It was a pain to search youtube with kanji, but the one I can find is Enhō v Gagamaru, Aki 2018:

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Seiyashi

[sumojoann 1,256]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Unfortunately no, it's quite a standard "stand up and go" tachiai of that era.

 

Here's one more video I'm not able to watch.  Does it have hassou-tobi in it? 

 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Yep, that's hassōtobi. 

[Akinomaki 39,768]

It is Hayateumi's trademark and if you say hassoutobi, you think of Hayateumi

On 29/06/2022 at 10:33, Akinomaki said:

On 25/06/2022 at 17:30, Akinomaki said:

On 20/02/2022 at 10:08, Akinomaki said:

Ex-Hayateumi since 2014 is member of the Aomori pref. assembly, presently in his 3rd term, and this summer will be running for the LDP at the upper house elections in the Aomori electoral district.

Saito is using the shikona (and image) Hayateumi on his election poster, but only applied for the elections under his real name - he could have applied for both.

He and his helpers use the site hayateumi.com and a YT channel for PR - and his older twitter. The posters on the site show him only now though: hayateumi.com/download

His data now: 184cm, 129kg, chest 120cm, grip strength 90kg, 5.6s on a 50m dash

His former occupation is sumo, it is not listed among the sports he is good at.

He talks about his youth, amateur beginnings and pro sumo career at first in the presentation video for the elections https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBX-h5nnuwk&t=30s

The highlight is his trademark jump, also in his profile https://hayateumi.com/profile/#sumo



[Stelios 30]

It reminds me of this! It's called ταυροκαθάψια (tavrokathapsia) and was a game in Minoan Crete.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Stelios

[Seiyashi 4,071]

OT, but Minoan?

[sumojoann 1,256]

Some interesting background information in the SF Glossary about hassou-tobi -----

hassou-tobi, rare jump upwards at the tachiai by a rikishi attempting to surprise his forward leaning charging aite, when the move works it is a real crowd-pleaser and can be a spectacular way of winning; the originator of the term into sumo was moto-yokozuna Wakanohana I, originates from the story of Yoshitsune from Genji-Heishi war (1185) where according to legend Yoshitsune jumped from one enemy boat to another juking enemies around, it was said he could jump over eight boats (hassou no fune), nowadays Hayateumi has started to use this jump as part of his sumo repertoire.

[sumojoann 1,256]

Here is Mainoumi leaping into the air like a rabbit at the tachi-ai.  It's at the very beginning of the video.  (The cursor jumped forward on my computer.  You may have to set it back).  Almost as dramatic as Hayateumi. 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by sumojoann

[Octofuji 327]

6 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

And now they even have a way to call a linesman sashichigae.

Yes, it's strange to think of sumo as technologically advanced of other sports by several decades!

[Yamanashi 3,724]

3 hours ago, sumojoann said:

Interesting information about the hassou-tobi on the SF Glossary.  It mentioned that a rikishi named Hayateumi used it.  I found this old YT video of one of his bouts but my browser is so old, it won't allow me to watch the video.  Does it show him using the hassou-tobi?  If not, I'll delete this post. 

 

I don't think so; one of them fell down pretty quickly, but it didn't look like a high leap from the other.  The quality of the video is so bad (not your fault, obviously) that the gyoji looked like Link from Legend of Zelda version 2.

[Katooshu 3,132]

Good examples, and if one looks through those and other hassotobi it's apparent that even using the most extreme form of henka, there's still usually contact between rikishi.

Now the next step is for someone to use one of those front flipping moves shown in Stelios's image to spring over the top and behind their opponent. I just hope it's not Kenho or Dewanojo who tries it 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Katooshu

[Seiyashi 4,071]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

I just hope it's not Kenho or Dewanojo who tries it 

Are you kidding? I hope it's them.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Katooshu 3,132]

I think that wouldn't end well for them or their opponent 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

4 hours ago, Stelios said:

It reminds me of this! It's called ταυροκαθάψια (tavrokathapsia) and was a game in Minoan Crete.

Considering Abi has grown horns to some people, perfect timing!

[Wakawakawaka 136]

Not to beat a dead horse, or bull, or sika deer, but in regards to Abi's henka, I've had a revelation that really narrows down his possible motives.

Two motives mentioned so far... 1) he wanted to be fresh for the next bout, 2) he just happens to henka once in a while as he is concerned about his long-term health

Both of those motives are patently false. How do I know this you might ask?

Because in both of those cases he would not be 'taking it one bout at a time' and thus due to the laws of sumo, would have lost. 

[Benevolance 2,478]

I was good with 2 out of the 3 possible outcomes and I'm still grumpy about Abi winning. 

[Kyokufuji 61]

10 hours ago, Benevolance said:

I was good with 2 out of the 3 possible outcomes and I'm still grumpy about Abi winning. 

This is exactly how I feel. And simultaneously accepting that he decisively won three matches in a single day. He earned the yusho… I just wish he hadn’t.

[Godango 956]

Yeah I'm still unhappy about it, but sport would be boring if you always got the result you wanted.

[Kuhne 57]

Ahí si so badass he concusses you with henkas 

[Gurowake 3,915]

The only reason henka are frowned upon is that they don't make for a good spectator sport.  Because the Kyokai needs to make money, they can't have people wanting to henka with a reasonably high probability.  Rikishi are perfect capable of making their own decisions, but ones that plan on staying in the Kyokai need to concern themselves with its long-term health as an organization.  If every other bout features a henka, people will stop watching.  And it's not like there are tons of people watching as it is.

[RabidJohn 1,663]

13 hours ago, Kuhne said:

Ahí si so badass he concusses you with henkas 

It says in the Jungyo thread that Takayasu is kyujo with a whiplash injury to his neck, so I'm starting to think it was a rotational brain injury rather than a concussion. Similar to a boxer getting KOed with a blow to the chin that snaps his head to the side. It's not the impact: it's the sudden twisting that does the damage. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by RabidJohn

[Godango 956]

4 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

It says in the Jungyo thread that Takayasu is kyujo with a whiplash injury to his neck, so I'm starting to think it was a rotational brain injury rather than a concussion. Similar to a boxer getting KOed with a blow to the chin that snaps his head to the side. It's not the impact: it's the sudden twisting that does the damage. 

Yeah this makes sense, I was probably speaking too generally when I was saying concussion. Very similar symptoms. I hope this injury isn't another medium-long term setback for him.