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Seiyashi

Stable and Ichimon Dominance

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Posted (edited)

Two questions in one post, basically. 

A) What's the highest number of sekitori a single stable has ever had? It feels like the number should be higher than Oitekaze's current 7, or else more would be constantly made of it? 

B) What's the most disproportionate representation of an ichimon in ozumo? I know Dewanoumi's size was causing problems for torikumi making back when do-ichimon matchups were also disallowed, but considering how large the ichimon was then, it can hardly be said to be disproportionate. On the other hand, both Miyagino and Isegahama look like they're about to score 6 sekitori each by this time next year, and would account for nearly a fifth of all sekitori despite their ichimon being the smallest. 

Before someone asks the obvious followup, stable dominance in terms of rank is probably in the Muashigawa or Futagoyama days, and that doesn't seem likely to change very quickly. 

Edited by Seiyashi

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The answer to A would probably be Dewanoumi. Apparently Kasugano-beya split off in 1925 as a special case, and no branch outs were allowed for some time. As such, these banzuke weren't just dominated by the ichimon, but by the heya itself.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kamitsuumi said:

The answer to A would probably be Dewanoumi. Apparently Kasugano-beya split off in 1925 as a special case, and no branch outs were allowed for some time. As such, these banzuke weren't just dominated by the ichimon, but by the heya itself.

That's what I was going to mention.  There were times that I looked at for the "early sanyaku haridashi" stuff that Dewanoumi-beya had one entire half of the Makuuchi banzuke.  I didn't check to see if the following actually happened, but it seems possible that at some point rikishi from the heya couldn't be promoted to Makuuchi because there was no room for anyone else in their heya.

Edited by Gurowake
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So I guess the natural follow-up to it is, other than Dewanoumi's dominance (which is hopefully/obviously never going to happen again), what is the next record number in the modern period equivalent?

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7 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

So I guess the natural follow-up to it is, other than Dewanoumi's dominance (which is hopefully/obviously never going to happen again), what is the next record number in the modern period equivalent?

I don't know the answer but Futagoyama with 11 sekitori in the mid-90s has got to be up there. 

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Posted (edited)
On 18/06/2022 at 06:12, Kamitsuumi said:

Which brings up the aspect that most fans probably don't think of juryo rikishi contributing much to a stable's "dominance", so I'm not sure if a count of sekitori is really the best measure to begin with.


FWIW...

Highest shares of makuuchi rikishi since 1958 (only each heya's top entry, after a fashion):

Futagoyama 10 of 40 (25%) in 1993.03 and 1993.05 [immediately following the Fujishima (6) / Futagoyama (4) merger]
Tokitsukaze 10 of 49 (20.4%) in 1959.03
Tatsunami 8 of 40 (20%) in 1965.01
Takasago 10 of 54 (18.5%) in 1958.07

Dewanoumi 7 of 40 (17.5%) in 1964.071965.031965.051966.051966.09 and 1967.01 [absolute top: 8 of 54 (14.8%) in 1958.03]
Sadogatake 7 of 40 (17.5%) in 1992.11 and 1993.01
Musashigawa 7 of 40 (17.5%) in 2003.09
Futagoyama pre-merger 6 of 35 (17.1%) in 1981.11
Hanakago 7 of 41 (17.1%) in 1961.091961.11 and 1962.01
Izutsu 6 of 38 (15.8%) in 1989.03
Fujishima pre-merger 6 of 40 (15%) in 1991.111992.031992.051992.071992.091992.11 and 1993.01

Mihogaseki 5 of 35 (14.3%) in 1981.01
Kasugano 5 of 38 (13.2%) in 1984.01
Sakaigawa 5 of 42 (11.9%) in 2012.03, 2012.07, 2014.09, 2015.01, 2015.03, 2015.05, 2015.07, 2015.11 and 2016.07
Isegahama [2007- version] 5 of 42 (11.9%) in 2014.11, 2015.01, 2015.03, 2015.05, 2015.07, 2015.09, 2015.11 and 2016.01
Kokonoe 5 of 42 (11.9%) in 2017.01, 2021.07 and 2021.09
Oitekaze 5 of 42 (11.9%) in 2019.11, 2021.03, 2021.05 and 2021.07

Miyagino 4 of 34 (11.8%) in 1967.071967.091967.11 and 1968.01
Isegahama [1921-2007 version] 4 of 34 (11.8%) in 1970.07
Asahiyama 4 of 34 (11.8%) in 1972.05
Nishonoseki 4 of 36 (11.1%) in 1974.09, 1974.11, 1975.01 and 1975.09
Oshima 4 of 38 (10.5%) in 1990.07
Naruto 4 of 42 (9.5%) in 2004.11, 2011.09, 2012.03, 2012.07 and 2012.09
Kise 4 of 42 (9.5%) in 2016.03, 2021.07 and 2021.09
...
Araiso 4 of 55 (7.3%) in 1958.01

(I left out some stables that topped out at 3 makuuchi rikishi, but with percentages between Kise and Araiso. The list is complete for 4+.)


Edit: Scrap Araiso, I forgot that that's the same as the old Isegahama.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Posted (edited)
On 18/06/2022 at 15:31, Asashosakari said:

Isegahama [2007- version] 5 of 42 (11.9%) in 2014.11, 2015.01, 2015.03, 2015.05, 2015.07, 2015.09, 2015.11 and 2016.01

When the Nagoya 2022 banzuke releases, with Nishikifuji's promotion to Makuuchi basically confirmed, would Isegahama have 5 makuuchi wrestlers again?

Edited by Kaitetsu

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2 hours ago, Kaitetsu said:

When the Nagoya 2022 banzuke releases, with Nishikifuji's promotion to Makuuchi basically confirmed, would Isegahama have 5 makuuhci wrestlers again?

Yup, Terunofuji, Takarafuji, Terutsuyoshi, Midorifuji, and presumptively Nishikifuji. With Atamifuji looking likely to join them before too long if the others can keep their places.

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On 18/06/2022 at 14:31, Asashosakari said:

most fans probably don't think of juryo rikishi contributing much to a stable's "dominance"

I'd think this would even be true for rikishi in the bottom half of Makuuchi.  Also, if you and a stablemate are both in the bottom section, your schedule gets harder, not easier, in general.  That might be an issue for Isegahama next basho.

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I don’t think it’s always the case where rank is a good correlation to wrestling prowess but still I don’t think anyone refers the to previous couple of years as an era of Kokonoe dominance.

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