Aki 2022 discussion (results)

[RabidJohn 1,634]

8 hours ago, Tochinofuji said:

I'm also always wary of a rikishi relying too much on utchari. Like Goeido and his kubinage, while the utchari is an impressive throw it's a bit of a desperation move, indicating you've likely been on the losing end of the match up to the reversal. 

Not to say that Wakamotoharu is over-reliant on it at this point, but if I were to pick one over the other I'd stick with Wakatakakage's hazu-oshi style yorokiri. 

While it's notable that he's won with such a comparatively rare kimarite twice in a few days, I can't see him getting fixated on it like Terutsuyoshi does with ashitori.
I believe all rikishi generally try to avoid situations in which they'd have to try utchari, but I imagine it's handy muscle memory to acquire for when you're forced into such a desperate move.

[Jakusotsu 5,742]

1 hour ago, Athenayama said:

Strange, I'm almost sure I saw him win that way not so long ago. Probably I'm mistaken.

Probably because everything looks equally weird by him.

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

1 hour ago, Athenayama said:

Strange, I'm almost sure I saw him win that way not so long ago. Probably I'm mistaken.

He's done similar moves to that one in the past, but they were different techniques, based on tiny nuances of head position, etc. Others here can probably tell you which ones they precisely were.

[Athenayama 931]

9 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Probably because everything looks equally weird by him.

 

1 minute ago, Kaninoyama said:

He's done similar moves to that one in the past, but they were different techniques, based on tiny nuances of head position, etc. Others here can probably tell you which ones they precisely were.

Or maybe was it in Juryo?

[Athenayama 931]

Yeah, not even in Juryo, just checked.

[Seregost 119]

41 minutes ago, Athenayama said:

 

Or maybe was it in Juryo?

He did an izori to Kyokusuho in Fukuoka two years ago. It's quite similar, at least to my eyes.

[Godango 956]

As well as the Izori vs. Kyokushuho in Kyushi 2020, he's also scored the similar Tasukizori over Amakaze in Hatsu 2017.

[Koorifuu 860]

5 hours ago, Seregost said:

Btw, what's up with Yutakayama? He looks sooo far away from that guy that defeated Mitakeumi when the latter won his first yusho in Nagoya 2018. He has been so disappointing since then :/

Yeah, I've been feeling the same for at least a couple of years. The way he shot up to makuuchi and quickly made joi, I was hoping it was a matter of time until he settled in and we'd have a stalwart sekitori in him. But he looks so... fragile since then? As in, with plenty of seemingly random moments of weakness that others exploit more often than not. I'd imagine it's the accumulated injuries.

But I'm not as good a judge of sumo potential as I'd like to be, so I bet many here predicted he'd be a career maegashira-juryo yoyo.

[Bakayokozuna 52]

Is it me or Hokutofuji was kinda lucky to not have any monoii ?

 

[Katooshu 3,082]

Yutakayama has spent 18 of 26 makuuchi basho as a double digit maegashira. He only has 1 KK above M9, and has nearly 50 more losses than wins. He has 17 MK and 8 KK in his 25 makuuchi tournaments prior to this one.

It was the sansho winning 12-3 basho that was the anomaly.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Katooshu

[Gurowake 3,875]

I don't think anyone's mentioned Mitakeumi at all.  Did people forget he's kadoban still?  Or is Shodai's futility overshadowing MItakeumi's second straight loss?

[Godango 956]

22 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I don't think anyone's mentioned Mitakeumi at all.  Did people forget he's kadoban still?  Or is Shodai's futility overshadowing MItakeumi's second straight loss?

Fair point.

I think Mitakeumi has looked stronger in defeat than Shodai. A healthy Meisei is sanyaku calibre, and a loss to him isn't necessarily indicative of poor performance.

Tobizaru, for the second time this tournament, had a game plan and executed it to perfection.

So I'm optimistic about Mitakeumi clearing kadoban and still think he could double-digit, but definitely it's still concerning to be 2-2 in week 1.

[Reonito 1,296]

1 hour ago, Bakayokozuna said:

Is it me or Hokutofuji was kinda lucky to not have any monoii ?

 

Yup, he went airborne first and touched down first, so Tochinoshin should have won by either the dead body rule or by "normal" rules.

[Kaito 272]

6 hours ago, Athenayama said:

Strange, I'm almost sure I saw him win that way not so long ago. Probably I'm mistaken.

You're not wrong that he won the same way in the recent past. Ura's antics seem to baffle the kimarite assigner. I researched his "izori" against Kyokushuho when it happened and determined it should have been a tsutaezori.

His famous "tasukizori" in 2017 was an even more inaccurate label for another tsutaezori, meaning we may not have seen a true tasukizori in the paid ranks in over 70 years (unless it was also mislabeled). He's not lifting the opponent's belt or legs in any of these.

Sometimes he performs the same technique and gets different results, like his Ushiromotore vs Azumaryu in Kyushu 2020. If the opponent doesn't go down, he can still back up to drive them out.

Anyway, I'm satisifed that they finally got it right this time. I'd be more satisifed if they'd go back and correct the history books as regards some of these rare kimarite, but I'm not gonna worry about something that'll never happen.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I don't think anyone's mentioned Mitakeumi at all.  Did people forget he's kadoban still?  Or is Shodai's futility overshadowing MItakeumi's second straight loss?

Nobody is used to him being ozeki and just assume he’s already sekiwaki when they see him.

[Jakusotsu 5,742]

11 hours ago, Seregost said:

Btw, what's up with Yutakayama? He looks sooo far away from that guy that defeated Mitakeumi when the latter won his first yusho in Nagoya 2018. He has been so disappointing since then :/

Every banzuke region needs its Shodai.

[Yamanashi 3,687]

1 hour ago, Kaito said:

You're not wrong that he won the same way in the recent past. Ura's antics seem to baffle the kimarite assigner. I researched his "izori" against Kyokushuho when it happened and determined it should have been a tsutaezori.

His famous "tasukizori" in 2017 was an even more inaccurate label for another tsutaezori, meaning we may not have seen a true tasukizori in the paid ranks in over 70 years (unless it was also mislabeled). He's not lifting the opponent's belt or legs in any of these.

Sometimes he performs the same technique and gets different results, like his Ushiromotore vs Azumaryu in Kyushu 2020. If the opponent doesn't go down, he can still back up to drive them out.

Anyway, I'm satisifed that they finally got it right this time. I'd be more satisifed if they'd go back and correct the history books as regards some of these rare kimarite, but I'm not gonna worry about something that'll never happen.

He certainly has the knack for odd behavior, though as you say some of the announced kimarite may be suspicious.

On the db, he has credit for the following kimarite that have fewer than 0.5% overall occurrences:

14 ashitori (0.16%)

5 hikkake (0.15%)

1 izori (0.01%)

1 kimedashi (0.43%)

1 kirikaeshi (0.17%)

1 koshinage (0.00% !)

2 kubihineri (0.03%)

1 okurihikiotoshi (0.02%)

1 okurinage (0.07%)

2 okuritaoshi (0.48%)

1 okuritsuridashi (0.00%)

1 tasukizori (0.01%)

11 tottari (0.21%)

1 tsutaezori (0.01%)

1 ushiromotare (0.02%

2 watashikomi (0.12%)

also, 1 unknown (the Jd playoff in January 2020; it was aleg pick that unbalanced Kyukuyuko and he finished him off with an oshidashi).

Certainly his speed and shiftiness give him at least a chance to pick up some okuri- moves on occasion.  His ushiromotare against Azamaryu was an izori attempt where Azumaryu fell off Ura's back, so Ura marched him backwards out of the ring.

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

Terutsuyoshi used to be a favorite, but lately he's turned into an ashi-tori one-trick pony, and Midorifuji is looking like the better prospect at the moment. 

Maybe it's just injuries that are limiting what he can do, but hope he gets back to reaching deeper into his considerable bag of tricks. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Akinomaki 39,547]

Kaisei at his cocommentator debut on NHK today said he's a bit nervous, but he sounds relaxed and like he's really suited for this. Maybe he'll become a regular, today with Mainoumi.

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

Takayasu is looking strong in his return to the dohyo. He could be there at the end.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Kiribayama has shown some real grit this basho so far, even when losing. Another hard-fought win against Ichinojo means he's beaten two of the three Sekiwake.

[Taliesin 68]

36 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Kaisei at his cocommentator debut on NHK today said he's a bit nervous, but he sounds relaxed and like he's really suited for this. Maybe he'll become a regular, today with Mainoumi.

Not a great day for the commentator debut, with Miyagino on Abema.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Shodai taking another basho off while banking the pay cheques ...

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Tamawashi yusho ... ? 

[Chartorenji 235]

Overheard in Isegehama heya after Day 5:
“He got me,” Terunofuji said of Tamawashi's 4 kinboshi over him. "That f***ing Tamawashi boomed me."
The Yokozuna added, “He’s so good,” repeating it four times.
Terunofuji then said he wanted to add Tama to the list of players he works out with on the next tour.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Chartorenji