Aki 2022 discussion (results)

[Akinomaki 40,703]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

MMA bully Chiyodaigo also has calmed down and didn't hurt the reputation of Kokonoe, maybe even the jd yusho for him like Otani the jk, these are the times now.

Actually Chiyodaigo is still as dangerous as he was as Kinjo, day 6 he knocked out Toshunryu with 4 right harite hooks: "I know the oyakata gets furious, but that's my distinctive characteristic." http://www.sponichi.co.jp/entertainment/news/2022/09/23/kiji/20220923s00041000301000c.html

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIkzG42mYXM&t=61m15s

[Seiyashi 4,107]

Is he alright in other respects like demeanour and sportsmanship (whereas Ōtani clearly lacks in those areas)? I mean, Takakeishō also gave pretty brutal harite to Kotonowaka to the point where Kotonowaka had serious swelling the day after, but that's just the sport.

[Seiyashi 4,107]

2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

12 hours ago, Benihana said:

I wish there were a bunch of older, experienced, well respected sumotori in the lower ranks, which couldn't make it to the top, perhaps due to injury, but who are still capable to go Denzel Washington once in a while. Don't push him out, don't slap him down, just keep him in the ring and give his face a massage, until he bends the knee.

Interesting that you mention it.  I've come to think that the lack of such a group of ... enforcers ... argues against most of the grand conspiracy theories about Sumo.  If there was a shadowy Mafia-like structure to Ozumo, I'd expect they'd have a class of button-men who'd take care of people like this to keep up appearances for the public.

Why do you think Asahishō was retained as an oyakata? That's his secret assignment - to build up said group. 

[Akinomaki 40,703]

9 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Is he alright in other respects like demeanour and sportsmanship (whereas Ōtani clearly lacks in those areas)? I mean, Takakeishō also gave pretty brutal harite to Kotonowaka to the point where Kotonowaka had serious swelling the day after, but that's just the sport.

I guess he now is, but also about Otani nothing negative gets reported in the sports papers - misbehavior in the lowest divisions has to be a bit more serious to be of some importance.

[Yamanashi 3,888]

So, with everything we've seen for fourteen days, what's the over-under that the Yusho is captured with a henka?

[Benevolance 2,508]

Maybe we'll get to see the majestic and elusive double henka!!!

[Tochinofuji 387]

34 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Why do you think Asahishō was retained as an oyakata? That's his secret assignment - to build up said group. 

I like where this is going. A Kyokai Goon Squad, with representatives from each ichimon (complete with underlings), going out on degeiko hit jobs... 

[Hankegami 537]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Since Heisei (=1989), it happened 6 times, last time exactly 5 years ago: Harumafuji won as Goeido choked properly after a 10-1 start.

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2022/09/24/kiji/20220924s00005000625000c.html

I double-checked this (cross-checked this list) and it appears it happened 7 times since Hatsu 1989, although I also included multi-participant playoffs. Anyway, this was part of a group of 18 playoffs triggered by a final day bout between two rikishi that also faced each other in the playoff. This means about 40% chances of success for a double win. A gambler would say that's not that much a bad bet.

If you are interested in the actual bouts, here are my notes (playoff winners in bold):

Spoiler

 

2021.05 Terunofuji vs. Takakeisho (one win per side)

2020.11 Terunofuji vs. Takakeisho (one win per side)

2017.09 Harumafuji vs. Goeido (double win)

2017.03 Terunofuji vs. Kisenosato (double win)

2015.09 Terunofuji vs. Kakuryu (one win per side)

2014.01 Hakuho vs. Kakuryu (one win per side)

2009.09 Hakuho vs. Asashoryu (one win per side)

2009.01 Hakuho vs. Asashoryu (one win per side)

2002.01 Chiyotaikai vs. Tochiazuma (double win)

2001.05 Takanohana vs. Musashimaru (one win per side)

2001.01 Takanohana vs. Musashimaru (one win per side)

1999.01 Chiyotaikai vs. Wakanohana III (double win)

1997.05 Takanohana vs. Akebono (double win)

1997.03 Takanohana vs. Akebono (double win) Four-way playoff

1996.11 Takanonami vs. Musashimaru (one win per side) Four-way playoff

1993.07 Takanohana vs. Akebono (one win per side) Three-way playoff

1991.05 Asahifuji vs. Konishiki (double win)

1989.01 Hokutoumi vs. Asahifuji (one win per side)

 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Hankegami

[sumojoann 1,267]

46 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

Maybe we'll get to see the majestic and elusive double henka!!!

Here is my favorite "majestic and elusive" double henka.  A quick version of the Japanese crane mating dance.  Harumafuji vs Tochinishin Aki basho 2011 Day 10 Sept 20.  Kinta's video.  It starts at 5:45. 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by sumojoann

[Benevolance 2,508]

21 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

Here is my favorite "majestic and elusive" double henka.  A quick version of the Japanese crane mating dance.  Harumafuji vs Tochinishin Aki basho 2011 Day 10 Sept 20.  Kinta's video.  It starts at 5:45. 

That's my favorite one, too! 

[Kashunowaka 300]

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

He already brought 4 of his uchi-deshi to sekitori, 3 of them to makuuchi, though not for long. Next basho Hokuseiho is the heya top and he should have a more lasting career. Nishonoseki has much to do to catch up with Hak in respect of coaching quality, also Naruto. So far Hakuho is the best coach among the younger shisho.

It's too early to judge. 

[Kaninoyama 1,815]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

Takayasu definitely has the physical ability to beat Tamawashi. The question is, will he have the mental ability? 

Don't know if he will be able to do it, but he does seem to greater a stronger sense of calm than he's had previously--at least through Day 14. Senshuraku with the yusho on the line may be a different story. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Rocks 1,809]

2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

So, with everything we've seen for fourteen days, what's the over-under that the Yusho is captured with a henka?

I'd say zero chance. I don't see Tamawashi doing it as he's been blowing people away with his tachi-ai so little reason to resort to it. I don't see Takayasu doing it as even if it works he'll then have to face him again right away. I wouldn't want to face a Tamawashi I just pissed off. If one of them were injured as Kisenosato was I could see it. 

[Yamanashi 3,888]

4 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I'd say zero chance. I don't see Tamawashi doing it as he's been blowing people away with his tachi-ai so little reason to resort to it. I don't see Takayasu doing it as even if it works he'll then have to face him again right away. I wouldn't want to face a Tamawashi I just pissed off. If one of them were injured as Kisenosato was I could see it. 

I mostly posted in jest, but this basho anything might happen. [N.B. If Takayasu wins by henka in the first match, it won't capture the Yusho.  I assume he'd pull it in the playoff bout.]

[sumojoann 1,267]

Hiro uploaded his latest "Sumo Prime Time" video, "Day 14 Tourney: Who's going to win it all?" about 11 hours ago.  Someone made a  very interesting comment.  They wished that Hiro had covered some of the interesting matches in the lower ranks.  They specifically mentioned the Hamasu vs Yamato match in Jonidan.  Apparently Yamato, who weighs only 78kg, attempted a tasukizori against Hamasu, who weighs 132kg.  Yamato lost.  He had the arm and the leg locked, but not the strength to follow through.  ****NOTE**** -- Does anyone have a video of the Hamasu vs Yamato Day 14 match? 

[Katooshu 3,317]

Tamawashi already has a makuuchi yusho, therefore I'm cheering for Takayasu 

[since_94 650]

On 21/09/2022 at 19:20, Leo C said:

This got me thinking, how are they still cheering him? I would have given up on rooting for that guy a long time ago. Does he deserve that reaction for a 2nd victory in 11 days as an Ozeki against a random maegashira? I guess that speaks for the loyalty of the Japanese fans when compared to westerners. 

I suspect a lot of fans take into account what it takes—commitment and dedication and skill-wise—to rise to the top of such a brutal sport. That earns a lot of respect and “street cred”, for want of a better word, amongst fans. Even when a veteran is down on his luck or on the downward slide of a waning career, there is still that enduring recognition and a sense of great appreciation for the entertainment a fighter has brought to millions by his efforts during his better days. I know I feel that way.

I agree with your point. It would be very un-Japanese for someone to be screaming “You’re a washed up bum!” at a rikishi during a sumo tournament. I can’t even imagine the  censuring such boorish behavior would attract.

Edited September 24, 2022 by since_94

[since_94 650]

11 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Tamawashi already has a makuuchi yusho, therefore I'm cheering for Takayasu 

I bet a lot of us will be happy regardless of who wins, as long as it’s not a cheap shot or a controversial call that decides it. I just want to do other things outside instead of watching live, but that means no electronic devices until after I’ve caught up. 

[Benevolance 2,508]

10 bucks says it's decided by a Slippiotoshi 

[Benevolance 2,508]

To be clear, that's 10 Canadian dollars. Which is, like, about the same value as 1 slightly used American pretzel, which is what I'll mail you if I lose the bet. 

[sumojoann 1,267]

5 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

To be clear, that's 10 Canadian dollars. Which is, like, about the same value as 1 slightly used American pretzel, which is what I'll mail you if I lose the bet. 

Yeah, I read that your loonies are in big trouble.

[Benevolance 2,508]

Ha ha! In the lower division, Byakuen (171 cm 67 kg) went straight at Amamidake (178 cm 155.5 kg) like the latter had stolen his wallet. 

[Leo C 52]

2 hours ago, since_94 said:

I suspect a lot of fans take into account what it takes—commitment and dedication and skill-wise—to rise to the top of such a brutal sport. That earns a lot of respect and “street cred”, for want of a better word, amongst fans. Even when a veteran is down on his luck or on the downward slide of a waning career, there is still that enduring recognition and a sense of great appreciation for the entertainment a fighter has brought to millions by his efforts during his better days. I know I feel that way.

I agree with your point. It would be very un-Japanese for someone to be screaming “You’re a washed up bum!” at a rikishi during a sumo tournament. I can’t even imagine the  censuring such boorish behavior would attract.

Yeah, if a guy gets hurt or old I understand still supporting them, naturally. What surprises me about Shodai's case is that nothing really happened to justify his poor performance.

Speaking of being old, I'll be rooting for Tamawashi. But since he's won a tournament before and Takayasu hasn't, I'll be happy either way this time.

[Rocks 1,809]

Anything about Sansho yet?

[Reonito 1,507]

31 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Anything about Sansho yet?

Nothing on the Kyokai website yet.