Aki 2022 discussion (results)

[Barutokai 62]

Watched today's digest (thanks @Kintamayama): Henkas are one thing. Falling for one the other.

It's like letting one's guard down. Something that shouldn't  mustn't happen for top tier warriors.

And I consider all Sanyaku (also ex-Sanyaku like Hokutofuji) to be "top tier warriors" that mustn't fall for cheap tricks.

Ichinojo was a good example for keeping his guard today.

[Gospodin 185]

1 hour ago, Barutokai said:

@Otani I think Hakuho knew what kind of character this guy has.

I hope Hakuho knows a good answer to that too.

Perhaps a training demonstration of his very last kachiage ?

Seriously, it would really surprise if Hakuho wouldn´t take care of wrong antics which brought himself trouble. If he doesn´t he is just another of those sports greats who turned out to be bad coaches, but I do not think he falls into that category.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Usually the best fix for a cocky young man with too much unearned swagger is to meet his match and be humbled. Otani will hit a wall at some point and be made to look stupid by rikishi much better than him. It’s east to strut about like you’re the alpha when you’re dusting up lanky teenagers down in Jonokuchi; we’ll see how he reacts to being on the receiving end.

[Gospodin 185]

It might be related to their amateur success. To quote one of the most knowledgeable members of this forum, Miyabiyama acted like a bigshot from day one.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Gospodin
editorial correctios

[Benevolance 2,462]

Maybe Otani's just getting a head start on promoting his inevitable post-sumo MMA career?

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

55 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Usually the best fix for a cocky young man with too much unearned swagger is to meet his match and be humbled. Otani will hit a wall at some point and be made to look stupid by rikishi much better than him. It’s east to strut about like you’re the alpha when you’re dusting up lanky teenagers down in Jonokuchi; we’ll see how he reacts to being on the receiving end.

Counterpoint: the Sudario brothers from Takanohana-beya. 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Yamanashi 3,687]

3 hours ago, Barutokai said:

@1972: no playoff wow.

I re-looked at that basho.  How weird!  The eventual winner Tochiazuma was at M5w, so he was fighting outside the joi through day 10; after that he got the remaining K/S/O (top guys kyujo).  Then on day fourteen he's against M9e Tokibayama.  Huh??? Why would they do that?  [Because the M9e wrestler was the co-leader at 9-4!].  Everyone else either had 5 losses already, or had already faced him.  Just a matter of defeating O Kiyokuni on day 15 with ... wait for it ... a henka.

 

There is nothing new in Sumo.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Yamanashi

[Thorbjarn 214]

I'm pretty convinced Tamawashi is winning this. Were there many Rikishi winning their first Yusho in their mid-thirties and a second one in their late thirties? 

[Hankegami 412]

13 hours ago, Thorbjarn said:

I'm pretty convinced Tamawashi is winning this. Were there many Rikishi winning their first Yusho in their mid-thirties and a second one in their late thirties? 

If my data are correct, Tamawashi would be the oldest yusho winner ever were to win this basho. He is about 37 years 10 months old right now, an age greater than current record older Koyokutenho who won the Natsu 2012 basho at 37 years 8 months. I don't have data for late-thirties winners unfortunately, but considering that relatively few rikishi actually won the cup, and even fewer fought up to their mid-thirties, I am positive that Tamawashi would likely be a first. Most wrestlers are already retired at 37 years old usually after a prolonged slump beginning once gone past 30, forget winning both their Maakuchi yusho well into their thirties.

EDIT: Also, your typical mid-thirties yusho winner is usually a veteran Yokozuna. Hakuho won his last cup at 36 but won his first at 21. Chiyonofuji had his last at 35 but his first at 25. Haguroyama, the original Ironman - retired at almost 39 - won his last at 37 (and 4 months, iirc) but his first at 26. The list could go on. Perhaps some surprises could come from 18th-19th century tournaments when rikishi were more prone to fight well into their 40s, but it would be artificial since there was no Cup before 1909.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Hankegami

[Eikokurai 3,433]

24 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

If I had my data are correct, Tamawashi would be the oldest yusho winner ever were to win this basho. He is about 37 years 10 months old right now, an age greater than current record older Koyokutenho who won the Natsu 2012 basho at 37 years 8 months. I don't have data for late-thirties winners unfortunately, but considering that relatively few rikishi actually won the cup, and even fewer fought up to their mid-thirties, I am positive that Tamawashi would likely be a first. Most wrestlers are already retired at 37 years old usually after a prolonged slump beginning once gone past 30, forget winning both their Maakuchi yusho well into their thirties.

EDIT: Also, your typical mid-thirties yusho winner is usually a veteran Yokozuna. Hakuho won his last cup at 36 but won his first at 21. Chiyonofuji had his last at 35 but his first at 25. Haguroyama, the original Ironman - retired at almost 39 - won his last at 37 (and 4 months, iirc) but his first at 26. The list could go on. Perhaps some surprises could come from 18th-19th century tournaments when rikishi were more prone to fight well into their 40s, but it would be artificial since there was no Cup before 1909.

All the more remarkable when we consider that he’s never missed a bout (Covid-mandated kyujo excepted). He’s never given himself a day off to rest, so to still be competing at this level is really something.

[Jakusotsu 5,743]

Ryuden again wins the worst-tokoyama-award.

Seriously, what's wrong with that guy? Half-way through the bout his mage is always completely destroyed without any impact from the opponent.

[Benihana 1,900]

21 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Same as Day 9 - a blatant dame-oshi after an easy win. The first one was petulant but innocuous - he got scolded by another shimpan, I'm afraid I don't know who that was. But this time he actually sent the kid rolling over the waiting gyoji.

I wish there were a bunch of older, experienced, well respected sumotori in the lower ranks, which couldn't make it to the top, perhaps due to injury, but who are still capable to go Denzel Washington once in a while. Don't push him out, don't slap him down, just keep him in the ring and give his face a massage, until he bends the knee.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Benihana

[Hankegami 412]

23 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

All the more remarkable when we consider that he’s never missed a bout (Covid-mandated kyujo excepted). He’s never given himself a day off to rest, so to still be competing at this level is really something.

Tamawashi is most remarkable for himself, but all late-thirties record holders in sumo were quite the ironmen. Koyokutenho himself holds the record for (non-consecutive) top division bouts with 1470 presences, and is second for most career bouts (oddly enough, Tamawashi is nowhere near the top in these particular lists), not to mention that he retired in 2015 at almost 41 years old... and still ranked Maegashira 11.

I recall some linked longevity in sumo with a lack of wrestling experience during childhood and adolescence. Tamawashi for instance wasn't a wrestler, just a 19-years-old who came over to Japan to meet his sister who studied there. He happened to see a training session at Izutsu stable and picked up an interest in sumo. Koyokutenho - Wikipedia-wise - played mostly baseball as a child, but at 17 y.o. ended up joining a group of young Mongolian sumo hopefuls. Another textbook example is Yokozuna Yoshibayama. He was just a 18 y.o. student who was approached by a sumo scout at the train station. He ended up being promoted Yokozuna at 34 and retired at 38. Once again, the list could go on. Even "Ironman" Haguroyama debuted at 19 y.o. during a time when most wrestlers easily joined sumo in their early teens.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Hankegami

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

That was some decisive sumo by Tamawashi. 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Takayasu needs the win to force a playoff by beating Tamawashi tomorrow (assuming that definitely gets scheduled).

Yusho race aside, Ryuden has quietly racked up 10 wins and Wakatakakage had a superb turnaround to recover from 0-3 to be on 10-4 today.

[Godango 956]

... do I dare to dream again?

[Eikokurai 3,433]

4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Takayasu needs the win to force a playoff by beating Tamawashi tomorrow (assuming that definitely gets scheduled).

Yusho race aside, Ryuden has quietly racked up 10 wins and Wakatakakage had a superb turnaround to recover from 0-3 to be on 10-4 today.

And he gets it. Final day drama then. Takayasu can force a playoff by not choking tomorrow.

[Hankegami 412]

5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Takayasu needs the win to force a playoff by beating Tamawashi tomorrow (assuming that definitely gets scheduled).

Yusho race aside, Ryuden has quietly racked up 10 wins and Wakatakakage had a superb turnaround to recover from 0-3 to be on 10-4 today.

Really. On the other hand, Hokutofuji crumbled down bad, passing from 9-0 to 10-4. Still a good result, but...

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

Nice effort by Nishikifuji in his debut bout against an Ozeki. Matched Takakeisho blow for blow, and even got a nice harite in there before succumbing. 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

6 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Really. On the other hand, Hokutofuji crumbled down bad, passing from 9-0 to 10-4. Still a good result, but...

Ryuden’s run was a good as WTK’s, from 1-4 to 10-4.

[Jakusotsu 5,743]

8 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Takayasu can force a playoff by not choking tomorrow.

Yup. He can choke easily in the playoff.

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

Takayasu and Tamawashi are 16-15 in their head to head matchups. Rooting hard for Takayasu but for now just happy it's going to the final day.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

2 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Yup. He can choke easily in the playoff.

He has two excellent opportunities to throw it away.

[Godango 956]

12 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Yup. He can choke easily in the playoff.

 

9 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

He has two excellent opportunities to throw it away.

C'mon guys, you don't have to tell it like it is.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Seems it is only the third basho with two Ozeki ending with 10+ losses, first since January 2017.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&form1_rank=O&form1_losses=10-15