Aki 2022 discussion (results)

[rhyen 1,799]

5 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Might I interest you in this?

I haven't updated the numbers, but Shōdai's and Mitakeumi's numbers are pretty crap, and the only thing stopping them from being crappier than e.g. Kaiō's is that they don't have as long a reign.

Takakeishō doing his best but he's unfortunately dealt a bad hand in terms of sumo techniques.

Perhaps if you might want to inverted the career longevity factor.

getting crap results towards the end of a illustrious Yokozuna/ozeki career is the norm (Kitanoumi, Hakuho, Takanohana) as opposed to consistently underperforming since promotion (Goeidou, Shodai). The shorter your reign, the more volatile your performances (especially giving more weightage to poor results).

[Akinomaki 39,548]

1 hour ago, dingo said:

At this time whomever wins a yusho is basically the yokozuna for a basho. Whether it be Mitakeumi, Wakatakakage, Ichinojo or someone else. There's not much else to distinguish between the rikishi otherwise. 

Exactly - just like everywhere else at amateur sumo and other competitions: the best is the xxx yokozuna - usually for the year, or the best 2, eat and west, banzuke style, even of the best onsen resorts.

I didn't expect that my remark would be taken serious in even a slight way

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I know it started as a joke,

it also went on as a joke

Edited September 21, 2022 by Akinomaki

[Seiyashi 4,068]

54 minutes ago, Reonito said:

8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Kabai-te, but it's rare enough I've never seen one called in the 3-4 years I've watched sumo.

Thank you; I don't know that they'd explicitly call it, but it looks like it would apply in the bout in question:

Kabai-te (庇い手) literally translates as defending hand. When the two wrestlers fall together, the wrestler on the lower side is referred to as shini-tai, or dead body, meaning that he is the loser even if he doesn't touch the ground first. In this case, if injury is foreseen, the wrestler on the upper side is allowed to support his weight by sticking out a hand on the ground (kabai-te) prior to the shini-tai wrestler touching the ground first. Although the wrestler on top touches first, he is still declared the winner.

I think it won't ever be called per se; there might have been cases of it implicitly in won bouts but the only time you'd have a chance to hear it being mentioned would be in mono-iis, and those are rare enough. I seem to vaguely recall that there was one historic bout (as in, B&W footage) that was held up as an example of one, but I cannot for the life of me remember where that was. More likely than not somewhere here, although it might also have been on Herouth's Twitter feed.

[dingo 1,121]

8 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Exactly - just like everywhere else at amateur sumo and other competitions: the best is the xxx yokozuna - usually for the year, or the best 2, eat and west, banzuke style, even of the best onsen resorts.

I didn't expect that my remark would be taken serious in even a slight way

it also went on as a joke

Reminds me of the "police chief for a day" and other similar activities the rikishi sometimes do. 

[sumojoann 1,254]

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I think it won't ever be called per se; there might have been cases of it implicitly in won bouts but the only time you'd have a chance to hear it being mentioned would be in mono-iis, and those are rare enough. I seem to vaguely recall that there was one historic bout (as in, B&W footage) that was held up as an example of one, but I cannot for the life of me remember where that was. More likely than not somewhere here, although it might also have been on Herouth's Twitter feed.

Here are 3 matches that involved kabai-te.  https://sumowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Kabai-te

[sumojoann 1,254]

13 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I think it won't ever be called per se; there might have been cases of it implicitly in won bouts but the only time you'd have a chance to hear it being mentioned would be in mono-iis, and those are rare enough. I seem to vaguely recall that there was one historic bout (as in, B&W footage) that was held up as an example of one, but I cannot for the life of me remember where that was. More likely than not somewhere here, although it might also have been on Herouth's Twitter feed.

Jan 1972 Day 8, Takanohana vs Kitanofuji; May 1993 Day 15, Wakanohana vs Konishiki; and July 2004 Day 8, Kotonowaka vs Asashoryu, per the link above.  @Seiyashi, your memory, though vague, is actually pretty good.

Edited September 21, 2022 by sumojoann
Add addl details

[hakutorizakura 582]

Mitakeumi is just feeling too comfortable being a long-term sekiwake he wants to go back.

No idea about Shoddyguy though (but he won, congrats!).

[Jakusotsu 5,743]

45 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

July 2004 Day 8, Kotonowaka vs Asashoryu

Video of that highly controversial bout. (see the excellent comment at sumojoann's link)

[Akinomaki 39,548]

Mitakeumi is only joint 6th in speedy drop after promotion, Takakeisho is joint top. Most of them (☆) made it back though.

o

[Koorifuu 860]

29 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Mitakeumi is only joint 6th in speedy drop after promotion, Takakeisho is joint top. Most of them (☆) made it back though.

o

Well, Itsutsushima duly retired immediately after losing the rank upon his two MK, so he never really tried to get his rank back due to a bad knee. After crashing out from a 7-2 score into six consecutive losses, no less. Different times.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Koorifuu

[Chartorenji 235]

8 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

I've finally got around to watch that...

It earned him an immediate bollocking from the shimpan, let's see if that taught him any manners.

any video of this match?

[Koorifuu 860]

8 minutes ago, Chartorenji said:

any video of this match?

Leo Dickinson's YouTube channel, with full Abema streams - which I have only found recently, and quite frankly, is unlikely to live on for long.

Timestamped for your convenience:

 

I must say, however, that this wasn't an exceedingly furious dameoshi or anything. Force-wise, it was actually tame... It was more of a braggart one, a demonstration of superiority.

 

[sumojoann 1,254]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Video of that highly controversial bout. (see the excellent comment at sumojoann's link)

I found an old thread from 2016 with more details about Kabai-te. 

 

[Seiyashi 4,068]

40 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

I must say, however, that this wasn't an exceedingly furious dameoshi or anything. Force-wise, it was actually tame... It was more of a braggart one, a demonstration of superiority.

Quite consistent with the match itself, which had overtones of a cat playing with its prey.

Could see the shimpan also gesturing about his post-bout demeanour.

[Gospodin 185]

9 hours ago, rhyen said:

For all the veterans, how does the current batch of ozekiwake compared to their earlier predecessors?

Well, memory becomes clouded at lot with time, so I am quite careful. I am just going out on a limb and say that Tochiazuma in his prime would have taken care of not injuring them while  steamrolling them, and that matches between Chiyotaikai and Takakeisho at their best would have been a beauty to watch.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Gospodin

[Benevolance 2,462]

Okay, nevermind. Shodai's back in the race. 

[Gospodin 185]

Even after 20+ years of watching, I am about 0.0001 % familiar with sumo culture compared with the elders on this forum, but, with Mitakeumi supposedly harboring an injury and  the sole Yokonzuna out, my guess is, he is only going on to fulfill his Ozeki duty.

[Leo C 52]

9 hours ago, Octofuji said:

I'm sure you're right him being Japanese is a big factor, but maybe not the only one. With Shodai I expect him to both lose and disappoint, which is frustrating, and so when he surprises you part of the emotional response is not just a positive reaction but also the release of nine days of frustration.

When we stop feeling the frustration (e.g. Kotoshogiku) then we really have given up on them. Two or three bad bashos in a row for Shodai and maybe that will begin to happen. But it's easy to forget that in Nagoya week 2 he was almost unbeatable.

I see your point. Just a clarification on what I said, I did not mean that because he is Japanese he is going to have more support from the crowd (although that point could be made, perhaps). I meant that because the fans are Japanese, they will be more loyal to the rikishi they like during hardship, regardless of the rikishi's nationality, as I believe in general Japanese fans tend to be more like that.

[Kaninoyama 1,660]

Losses by Tamawashi and Hokutofuji bring all the 3-loss rikishi right back into the mix. 

[Morning 73]

13 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Leo Dickinson's YouTube channel, with full Abema streams - which I have only found recently, and quite frankly, is unlikely to live on for long.

Timestamped for your convenience:

 

I must say, however, that this wasn't an exceedingly furious dameoshi or anything. Force-wise, it was actually tame... It was more of a braggart one, a demonstration of superiority.

 

And you want to nib that in the bud, before it becomes forceful or others are starting to do it as well because they let it slide.

I for one prefer it when rikishi instead show consideration after their win and try to stabilize they're opponents to prevent them from taking a tumble off the dohyo.

[sumojoann 1,254]

In the hallway after Mitakeumi's torinaoshi win, he was gingerly squeezing his left shoulder and wincing quite a bit.

[Jakusotsu 5,743]

6 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

In the hallway after Mitakeumi's torinaoshi win, he was gingerly squeezing his left shoulder and wincing quite a bit.

He should have stayed in bed in the first place.

[sumojoann 1,254]

I thought it was a chickensh*t move on Takakeisho's part to henka Hokutofuji, thus knocking him out of first place, but it seems like some people think it's perfectly fine.  I'm not one of those people.

Edited September 22, 2022 by sumojoann

[Hankegami 412]

Day 12 done, and boy that's a discreet mess.

Wakamotoharu gave a gift to lil' bro by making Tamawashi to drop another one, who obviously wasted it by losing against Takayasu. So the immediate beneficiaries are instead 9-3 Takayasu himself, Hokutofuji, Tobizaru, and Nishikifuji. FInally those annoying san'yaku went out of the main picture (but can always come back for a 11-4 upset).

Cannibalism is in the menu tomorrow. Tamawashi will be fed (or eaten by, let's see) with improbable 9-3 runner-up Nishikifuji, while our great M1e Tobizaru will have an occasion to put Hokutofuji at his place (which could be the front-runner position, who knows). Takayasu will get it easier, if Kiribayama can be called an easier foe. As a sideshow, Takakeisho vs. Wakatakakage will decide whoever is going to play the san'yaku outside bet for day 14. By the way, I saw that Takakeisho just read the Harumafuji chapter of his copy of "How to make Yokozuna". I hope also Wakatakakage read that.

Last line, shokkiri lovers will surely appreciate tomorrow's bout between Mitakeumi vs. Shodai.

Jokes aside, Tobizaru and Nishikifuji are seriously getting a good shot to the Cup. That's bewildering.

32 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Losses by Tamawashi and Hokutofuji bring all the 3-loss rikishi right back into the mix. 

I'd dare to say even the 8-4 boys still have an actual outside shot. Things get harder for the arasoi guys as the tournament goes towards its end. Even Tamawashi, who is in top form, should beware direct contenders such as tomorrow's Nishikifuji, who would in turn watch out for the joy as he stakes wins up. Same for the others.

24 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

In the hallway after Mitakeumi's torinaoshi win, he was gingerly squeezing his left shoulder and wincing quite a bit.

Well, he just fell on that shoulder. Last time around he injured his right shoulder by falling down from the dohyo entirely. This time he "just" fell on the upper ground with his whole sweet weight. He should be fine. Or at least I really hope he didn't injury his other shoulder this time around. What the heck he is, a butter biscuit?

Edited September 22, 2022 by Hankegami

[RabidJohn 1,634]

Proper Spanish Inquisition move from Takakeisho - got to be one of the most out-of-the-blue henka I've ever seen.
I didn't much care for it, but I appreciated the follow-up pantomime villain glares at the audience.

I couldn't believe Mitakeumi showed up today - what a daft bugger.

Tobizaru threatening double digits at M1, but he's going to be stuck there regardless, isn't he?