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Kintamayama

Invite for GTB- July (Nagoya) 2022- 155 entries - RESULTS!!

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Posted (edited)

The current joi looks much similar to the one in Kyushu 2020. Below yokozuna, the results of the sanyaku are pretty much the same. In upper maegashira, there were also a 10-5 and a 11-4 below him. But the department didn't open any extra komusubi slot for them. Was it because there were 9 sanyaku on the banzuke that time and they thought it was too many?

But now though, with one less sanyaku, promoting the two maegashira to HD feels more reasonable. If the new department don't want to open extra slot however, then they could do a 180 and demote Abi to maegashira and at least promote Kiribayama to K. But that seems unlikely

Edited by Chiyotasuke
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

Just because whatever your makuuchi rank is in the 3 tournaments before does not really seem to affect Ozeki promotions

Well, for the sake of argument, both Kiribayama and Takanosho had ranks and performances that could count as the first basho of a run if they were in san'yaku next tournament, but not if they're M1. Several modern runs (most recently Tochinoshin's) have started from the M1-M4 ranks, but all entail spending the second and third basho in san'yaku.

Edited by Reonito
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

A salary difference, a hinkaku difference, a legacy difference, a future-job-prospects difference. All kinds of different differences exist between reaching lower sanyaku and not reaching it.

From a career standpoint, these all make a difference.  The specific basho when the rank is acquired is meh!!  The rikishi may have already been there or will be there shortly.  It is seldom a one-shot occurrence.   

The question of whether to add a bonus sanyaku rank is usually a matter of the banzuke committee having its mawashi in a bind rather than a specific rikishi's qualification.

Edited by Asojima

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I thought of a great analogous example to how Daieisho forced an extra sanyaku slot despite them not technically needing to: the rearrangement of the order of KK Sekiwake.  The default is to not reorder them.  But there was an occasion when the west Sekiwake did so much better than the east Sekiwake that they have swapped: Mitakeumi after his Nagoya 2018 Yusho.  Only a couple basho later both Sekiwake have KK and the west one (Tamawashi) wins the Yusho and they do not swap, presumably because the east Sekiwake was 11-4 (Takakeisho) instead of 8-7 (Ichinojo) in Mitakeumi's case.

The point is that it's always done on a case-by-case basis, and there really are no rules for when it needs to be done other than a KK M1e, thus if you're going to add one when not needed it probably should be a really good reason.

 

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I also looked every single case of an 11-4 M1-M3, and that reminded me of the time that a M1e took an open Sekiwake slot from a KK Komusubi.  That's usually not how it works, but in that case the M1e's record was enough better than the Komusubi's that it made sense, even if I didn't go that way in GTB because it was "known" that a KK Komusubi gets the spot.  Usually if a maegashira has a better record than a Komusubi, it's not by enough to make them feel the maegashira deserves it, but in that case they decided it was.

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2 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

The point is that it's always done on a case-by-case basis, and there really are no rules for when it needs to be done other than a KK M1e, thus if you're going to add one when not needed it probably should be a really good reason.

We don't even know whether under the recent way of doing things, an 8-7 M1e would get an extra slot if a regular one wasn't available. It's a somewhat different situation, but there have been cases when a KK J1e didn't get promoted.

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2 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I also looked every single case of an 11-4 M1-M3, and that reminded me of the time that a M1e took an open Sekiwake slot from a KK Komusubi.  That's usually not how it works, but in that case the M1e's record was enough better than the Komusubi's that it made sense, even if I didn't go that way in GTB because it was "known" that a KK Komusubi gets the spot.  Usually if a maegashira has a better record than a Komusubi, it's not by enough to make them feel the maegashira deserves it, but in that case they decided it was.

And since, remarkably, both M1's went 11-4, the 8-7 K1w even got leapfrogged for the K1e slot by M1w.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Reonito said:

We don't even know whether under the recent way of doing things, an 8-7 M1e would get an extra slot if a regular one wasn't available. It's a somewhat different situation, but there have been cases when a KK J1e didn't get promoted.

That's entirely true, and we'll get another chance at seeing it in the next banzuke.  It usually takes something akin to force majeure, which doesn't seem the case this time, to preclude a rikishi from being promoted with a KK.  I think it's somewhat different for Juryo to Makuuchi though, since that introduces a whole new set of opponents and makes it much easier to get promoted further the next basho; that's not really the case for sanyaku.  They also have the ability to create the extra sanyaku spot in the analogous cases to where J1e 8-7 has bad banzuke luck.

Edited by Gurowake
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So, I entered early, then redid my banzuke and some parts look different (and maybe better, still pondering). Am I allowed to put in a new entry or does that mess things up?

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1 hour ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

So, I entered early, then redid my banzuke and some parts look different (and maybe better, still pondering). Am I allowed to put in a new entry or does that mess things up?

Yes, make sure you use the same name and email address.  Your last entry received will be used.

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16 hours ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

So, I entered early, then redid my banzuke and some parts look different (and maybe better, still pondering). Am I allowed to put in a new entry or does that mess things up?

As many as you like - the last one will count.

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8-9 days to go, depending on where you live. Don't wait for the last moment-so far the site has been stable, but don't count on that. Enter NOW.

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On 01/06/2022 at 00:31, Seiyashi said:

Also, facetiously re the J6 pair: if we could check the name board in Isegahama beya, and find out if Nishikifuji is in makuuchi or not, that would help quite a bit. 

Ha, I called it.

Scoop courtesy of Herouth.

That's going to necessitate a rejig of my GTB entry...

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Ha, I called it.

Scoop courtesy of Herouth.

That's going to necessitate a rejig of my GTB entry...

Whelp - there goes my entry.  Time to match that ol' Yusho of mine in GTB against an 0-15!

And poor Mitoryū - he was at the same rank last Nagoya and won the championship with a 12-3 record (not 11-4, like Nishikifuji). He was not subsequently promoted.  I guess rikishi and GTB players can both have bad luck!.

 

Edited by Muhomatsu

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Hmmm, the Juryo promotees are going to muck up my guess. My first draft had Daiamami at M17w but this seems impossible now. I am happy enough with M14 and above but M15 down is a crap shoot. I decided to promote 5 Juryo so there is a logic to my guess even though I am sure there is a better illogical Kyokai solution.

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Uhhhhh so with Nishikifuji going up, does that mean Yutakayama somehow ran out of space to stay up? So perhaps additions to the sanyaku are in order? Or I'm overthinking it

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Posted (edited)

I'm just probably going to displace Ryūden with Nishikifuji. The worry is if Nishikifuji is promoted, whether the yūshō is a differentiating factor and Daiamami should displace Hidenoumi as well. I think no, but I don't really want to spend too much time worrying over it either.

Edit: Just because I like the idea of Mitoryū being hard up, I decided to switch Daiamami with Hidenoumi as well. Meh.

Edited by Seiyashi

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I had Nishikifuji in maku'uchi from my first draft . I feel cheated!

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Just now, Tigerboy1966 said:

I had Nishikifuji in maku'uchi from my first draft . I feel cheated!

Not too late to resubmit - I've just done that.

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I'm surprised about Nishikifuji's promotion being a surprise.

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14 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'm surprised about Nishikifuji's promotion being a surprise.

Tell that to Mitoryū. To be fair if his precedent hadn't existed Nishikifuji's promotion wouldn't have been a surprise either. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Tell that to Mitoryū. To be fair if his precedent hadn't existed Nishikifuji's promotion wouldn't have been a surprise either. 

A period reminder that banzuke placement is relative, not absolute. A promotable record in Juryo is neither necessary nor sufficient for promotion. The db is down atm so I won't give examples, but rikishi regularly get pulled up to Makuuchi despite not having the numbers when there are too many top-division wrestlers who must go down, and even more regularly get left out despite being promotable when there are not enough open slots and/or others have even stronger promotion cases. Mitoryu isn't relevant here—it's the fact that we have 6 promotable rikishi and only 4 definite demotions.

Only one promotion slot was open, and 12-3 J6 Mitoryu wasn't going to pass 10-5 J1e Yutakayama or force down 7-8 M16 Chiyonokuni.

Edited by Reonito
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31 minutes ago, Reonito said:

12-3 J6 Mitoryu wasn't going to [...] force down 7-8 M16 Chiyonokuni.

He should have though. :(

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34 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

He should have though. :(

Is that in the spirit of "this is what I'd do if I were making the banzuke" or because there's precedent? I can't remember the last time an incumbent who was not demotable by the numbers got pushed down, so I am not sure what that takes.

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