Yamanashi

Kabu-worthy Sekitori

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

The current Michinoku-beya branched out from Izutsu in 1973 and absorbed its parent heya on ex-Sakahoko's death.

Not exactly; Michinoku-beya is that old Izutsu-beya via name change. The Izutsu-beya that got closed in 2019 was itself a branch-out from that old Izutsu-beya (as Kimigahama), Tsurugamine Akio having been passed over as successor to Izutsu in favour of Hoshikabuto in 1972. So effectively Michinoku absorbed its descendant heya, not its parent.

While I'm at it @Tamanaogijima - for Kirishima becoming the Michinoku shisho in 1997, I believe the transaction code ought to be HT rather than KC? The parallel I have in mind is Kitazakura becoming Shikihide.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Not exactly; Michinoku-beya is that old Izutsu-beya via name change. The Izutsu-beya that got closed in 2019 was itself a branch-out from that old Izutsu-beya (as Kimigahama), Tsurugamine Akio having been passed over as successor in favour of Hoshikabuto in 1972. So effectively Michinoku absorbed its descendent heya, not its parent.

Out of reacts but thanks. Updating the head post.

EDIT: Speaking purely philosophically, of course, I wonder whether this information makes any difference (in terms of comfort or aversion) to Kakuryū having to inherit Michinoku rather than Izutsu. Sure, from an external perspective, Michinoku was the OG Izutsu, but Michinoku wasn't the Izutsu that Kakuryū spent his career in, if that makes any sense.

Edited by Seiyashi

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Posted (edited)

So anyway, to provide @Yamanashi with a conclusion to a thesis he didn't provide, the kabu situation is perhaps not quite as immediately dire as he first suspected. 40(?) rikishi qualifying for a kabu doesn't mean they'll all need it tomorrow. Tatsunami and Nishonoseki largely have their affairs in order; Dewanoumi and Tokitsukaze have quite a crunch (although Tokitsukaze's won't be till 5 years later), and Kokonoe's sekitori will be tripping over each other trying to get kabu.

Edited by Seiyashi

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4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

So anyway, to provide @Yamanashi with a conclusion to a thesis he didn't provide, the kabu situation is perhaps not quite as immediately dire as he first suspected. 40(?) rikishi qualifying for a kabu doesn't mean they'll all need it tomorrow. Tatsunami and Nishonoseki largely have their affairs in order; Dewanoumi and Tokitsukaze have quite a crunch (although Tokitsukaze's won't be till 5 years later), and Kokonoe's sekitori will be tripping over each other trying to get kabu.

Ah, yes, but the inflow is not stopped.  Tobizaru and Shimanoumi could be eligible by January, and Enho, Yago, Ura, ... are in the chute.

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10 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

EDIT: Speaking purely philosophically, of course, I wonder whether this information makes any difference (in terms of comfort or aversion) to Kakuryū having to inherit Michinoku rather than Izutsu. Sure, from an external perspective, Michinoku was the OG Izutsu, but Michinoku wasn't the Izutsu that Kakuryū spent his career in, if that makes any sense.

I could imagine Kakuryu being the sober kind of type who subscribes to Futabayama's adage that all the toshiyori-kabu are the same, and not worry too much whether he's building a spiritual successor to his old home heya under the name of Michinoku or Tatsutayama or anything else.

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12 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Dewanoumi

Kabu available (ordered by proximity to retirement within each category)

  • Full oyakata
    • Irumagawa (ex-Tochitsukasa) (64)
    • Kasugano (ex-Tochinowaka) (60)
    • Sakaigawa (ex-Ryōgoku) (60)
  • Borrowers
    • Kitajin (ex-Shōtenrō) (40)
    • Otowayama (ex-Tenkaihō) (38)
    • Dekiyama (ex-Sadanofuji) (38)
    • Furiwake (ex-Hōchiyama) (40)

Sekitori waiting (by age)

  • Akiseyama (37)
  • Aoiyama (36)
  • Tokushōryū (36)
  • Myōgiryū (36)
  • Fujiazuma (35)
  • Sadanoumi (35)
  • Jōkōryū (34)
  • Hidenoumi (33)
  • Mitakeumi (30)
  • Meisei (27)

This one is a bit of a mess. 10 mostly rather old sekitori for 3 kabu, and 2 only opening up in a year's time. This is where some favours might have to be called in for temporary loaners - e.g. Nishikijima.

Well, at least one rikishi can be removed from the dogpile. Mitakeumi, being longstanding heyagashira at Dewanoumi-beya itself, and being personally requested to join to revive the fortunes of Dewanoumi, is likely to succeed to the Dewanoumi name. ex-Oginohana is only 55, and it's unlikely that Mitakeumi will be wrestling till 40, but as an ōzeki he has 3-year jun-toshiyori should he need it and not be able to borrow another kabu, which puts his retirement age at 37. Not implausible in these current times. In any case, his situation is a lot less acute relative to someone like Akiseyama, who is not having an easy time of his return from injury.

Aoiyama also ought to be associated with a kabu, given his recent acquisition of citizenship, but which kabu it is is anyone's guess. Tochiōzan might succeed to Kasugano, leaving Aoiyama to take over Tochiōzan's Kiyomigata kabu.

Myōgiryū and Sadanoumi are probably vying for Sakaigawa. Myogiryū is most senior in terms of rank after Takekuma's departure, but Sadanoumi has a family connection to ex-Ryōgoku; ex-Ryōgoku was a deshi of current Sadanoumi's father, and that may have some bearing to play on how Sakaigawa-beya is succeeded to.

The former komusubi Jōkōryū is in a curious spot. No one can deny his skill, but he has had the devil's own luck with injuries, resulting in a career less impressive than it should have been. Will he be given a kabu? If so, it looks like he's going to displace one of the trio of borrowers from retired/deceased rikishi, who topped out at maegashira.

Not much to be said about the remainder of the sekitori here, which other than Meisei have mostly been journeymen. If they do get a kabu it will likely be via borrowing; they don't seem likely to be first in line to any kabu unless they can outright purchase one.

Shouldn't Otowayama and Furiwake be considered when discussing situation within Nishonoseki and Takasago ichimons?

Those two may currently be on loan to members of Dewanoumi ichimon but that is recent development. And both of the owners of the kabu have far stronger ties to Nishonoseki or Takasago then to Dewanoumi...

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On a related note, assuming the Kyokai still bothers with it at all, the two externally held shares Izutsu (September) and Furiwake (January) are soon coming up to the end of the three-year grace period after which a new permanent owner is supposed to be named.


And related to that, last year we found out that the Otowayama share is already meant to be owned by Onosho (the DB still lists ex-Masurao as the owner, who would also be reaching the three-year mark in September):

On 20/04/2021 at 19:38, Yubinhaad said:

While skimming through some articles about myoseki ownership etc. last night, I noticed a line in this one from January which says that Onosho owns the Otowayama myoseki. His ja.wiki profile also says it and even gives an acquisition date of May 30th 2020, although that's not substantiated with a reference.

The unsourced May 2020 claim is no longer part of his profile, having been replaced by a reference to that linked article* and the inference from it that Onosho already owned the share when Tenkaiho started borrowing it (which would place the transfer of ownership at February 2020 or earlier). Unless new information comes to light, I suspect treating both events as having happened at the same time is probably the way to go for the DB eventually.

 

* Better link: https://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20210110_1625344.html - the version at Yahoo Japan is no longer accessible to European users without a VPN.

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13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Sotto voce: @Gurowake, you missed Chiyootori in your list of borrowers.

Only because I took the data in the database at face value.  If he's borrowing, it's not indicated as such in the place where the information is from.

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1 hour ago, Ripe said:

Shouldn't Otowayama and Furiwake be considered when discussing situation within Nishonoseki and Takasago ichimons?

Those two may currently be on loan to members of Dewanoumi ichimon but that is recent development. And both of the owners of the kabu have far stronger ties to Nishonoseki or Takasago then to Dewanoumi...

Good call. Furiwake going back to Takasago would ease the situation for Kokonoe's two ex-komusubi, being somewhere for Chiyootori to jump to when Chiyotairyū retires, assuming Chiyotairyū is indeed the unknown owner of Sanoyama.

Technically, Nishonoseki doesn't need the kabu represented by Otowayama, and they might still have a number of loaners to go around. The Machiavellian in me can see Nishonoseki using the loaners as a bit of a power play coming up ahead of the next rounds of elections, the first move of which was naming ex-Kisenosato as the kanban oyakata. They could supply Tokitsukaze with a number of slots in return for an alliance against Dewanoumi of sorts.

59 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

And related to that, last year we found out that the Otowayama share is already meant to be owned by Onosho (the DB still lists ex-Masurao as the owner, who would also be reaching the three-year mark in September):

If this is true (not that I doubt it is, but as Asashosakari pointed out we just simply can't verify it, same as with Chiyootori's Sanoyama where it's just guesses), then Otowayama will go home to Nishonoseki at some point in time if its ultimate owner is Ōnoshō. But since Ōnoshō is still quite young, I think we'll see Otowayama being a loaner for some time yet, whether or not for ex-Tenkaihō.

4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Ah, yes, but the inflow is not stopped.  Tobizaru and Shimanoumi could be eligible by January, and Enho, Yago, Ura, ... are in the chute.

I'll leave you to do the homework on that one :-P but a quick look at the kabu list shows 9 more kabu coming free in the 5 years after Gurowake's excellent list. In fact I'd alluded as much when I "cheated" on Nishonoseki's list, by assuming Abi was in line for Shikoroyama which wasn't part of the kabu that Gurowake identified, ex-Terao being only 59 this year.

49 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Only because I took the data in the database at face value.  If he's borrowing, it's not indicated as such in the place where the information is from.

That's fair, although for current purposes I think it's safe to include him into the list of borrowers given the inference to be drawn from the Kyokai's own kabu listing order. 

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

On a related note, assuming the Kyokai still bothers with it at all, the two externally held shares Izutsu (September) and Furiwake (January) are soon coming up to the end of the three-year grace period after which a new permanent owner is supposed to be named.

End of the year, for anyone interested - September for Izutsu and December for Furiwake.

Speaking of Izutsu and rikishi in the pipe, Shimanoumi, who married the late ex-Sakahoko's daughter, is sitting pretty at 26 bashō and counting. That means he'll in all likelihood be eligible by the time he retires, or even by the end of this year when Izutsu is supposed to go to a new owner (depending on whether this basho is or is not counted as his 26th). Assuming that Shimanoumi is going to be named as the inheritor of Izutsu, then we're going to see the kabu go off-ichimon to Dewanoumi at least for Shimanoumi's tenure as an oyakata, which will be balanced out by Kitajin (currently used by ex-Shōtenrō of Dewanoumi) returning to Tokitsukaze when Endō retires.

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1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

'll leave you to do the homework on that one :-P but a quick look at the kabu list shows 9 more kabu coming free in the 5 years after Gurowake's excellent list. In fact I'd alluded as much when I "cheated" on Nishonoseki's list, by assuming Abi was in line for Shikoroyama which wasn't part of the kabu that Gurowake identified, ex-Terao being only 59 this year.

My point is that if we consider 40 "kabu-ready" rikishi and say that there are years and years to absorb them, we'll find that there are maybe 50 or 60 in a decade.  I think there will always be too many

I've often wondered whether the criteria are too strict or too lenient.  Then I see that there are wiggle-room clauses (28 sekitori basho instead of 30, e.g., for an in-house takeover), and I have begun to realize that none of these kabu-worthies are guaranteed anything; so, as long as there are too many candidates instead of too few, there will be enough candidates to pick and choose (and wheel and deal).

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

My point is that if we consider 40 "kabu-ready" rikishi and say that there are years and years to absorb them, we'll find that there are maybe 50 or 60 in a decade.  I think there will always be too many

I've often wondered whether the criteria are too strict or too lenient.  Then I see that there are wiggle-room clauses (28 sekitori basho instead of 30, e.g., for an in-house takeover), and I have begun to realize that none of these kabu-worthies are guaranteed anything; so, as long as there are too many candidates instead of too few, there will be enough candidates to pick and choose (and wheel and deal).

Yes and no. By the numbers it might appear so, but there are kabu-worthies and then there are kabu-worthies. I believe I've asked this before somewhere on the form and Asashosakari supplied the answer, but I don't think it's an accident that a slight majority of current kabu holders are ex-sanyaku and most of the remaining peaked in the joi, with relatively few double-digit maegashira oyakata and only 1 who topped out in jūryō. It takes an effort to wheel and deal, and you really don't want to be wheeling and dealing for a nobody, so the rikishi highlighted blue in Godango's post (and the ones who can join them) are going to be the ones who are much more likely to be able to secure a kabu especially when kabu are scarce.

So if you can make it to sanyaku or the joi, your odds of securing a kabu should you want it are actually going to be pretty high, and then the journeymen have got to fight for the scraps. There's a reason I didn't really talk about non-sanyaku rikishi in the five posts, because without extenuating circumstances (e.g. Shimanoumi and his link to Izutsu) it pretty much amounts to "how hard you can beg" and "how lucky you are with timing". I suspect Kyokutaisei is in that hole right now, having the misfortune to be timing out just as his more senior and illustrious stablemate Kaisei is, despite a kabu coming available in their heya.

Edited by Seiyashi
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Posted (edited)

Did I miss something (computer: "yeah, dummy!") or haven't we talked about Oitekazebeya?  Ex-Daishoyama was born in 1966, so not going anywhere soon.  Meanwhile, Daieisho (28), Tsurugisho (30), Daishomaru (30) and Daiamami (29) are already eligible, and Tobizaru (30) and Daishoho (Mongolian, 27) are knocking on the door.  Endo already owns a kabu, so he's set, and he seems to be in auto-mode at M4±4 into the future.  Since there are so many eligibles and no in-house kabu for ten years, there should be some drama, yes?

Edited by Yamanashi
left out a word

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You didn't, but there's not much to be talked about: they have 3 kabu and 8 sekitori, and it pretty much amounts to a free for all. Thing is, their sekitori are relatively young (max 31) relative to the troubles of everyone else (e.g. Akiseyama, Kaisei, Shōhōzan), so their problems are less acute and they may well be asked to soldier on in the unpaid ranks should they happen to fall out of sekitori before any kabu come free for borrowing.

And in any case, the only kanban rikishi on the Oitekaze list who hasn't yet secured a kabu that we know of is Daieishō. Tobizaru is probably the runner up, and the rest are really journeymen being more notable for their jūryō appearances than their makuuchi. If push comes to shove I don't see them displacing Daieishō or Tobizaru in the pecking order for a kabu.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I've often wondered whether the criteria are too strict or too lenient.  Then I see that there are wiggle-room clauses (28 sekitori basho instead of 30, e.g., for an in-house takeover), and I have begun to realize that none of these kabu-worthies are guaranteed anything; so, as long as there are too many candidates instead of too few, there will be enough candidates to pick and choose (and wheel and deal).

In honesty, it's been like that most of the time since membership in the Association became to be seen as a valuable asset in the 1980s. (Go back longer than that though, say, five decades, and we find them unable to fill nearly one-sixth of all slots, despite more permissive criteria.) What's not happening as much now as it did in the 1990s and early 2000s is rikishi retiring into a kabu on loan and finding themselves ousted from the Kyokai altogether after a few years. I get the feeling that the powers that be are making sure those guys usually have some sort of prospective "exit strategy" now via future share movements, or else they're not accepted into the ranks to begin with.

For that reason I'm relatively unworried about the current set of borrowers. Of course unexpected developments are shaking things up frequently, but more often in the direction of making additional shares available (oyakata dying prematurely, or scandalizing their way out), rather than shares suddenly becoming off-limits in unplanned fashion (e.g. Shimanoumi jumping the Izutsu queue).

Anyway, there was an all too brief period where the balance of demand vs. supply was brought to almost even, but the circumstances of that won't be duplicated anytime soon, hopefully - the yaocho scandal a decade ago took out a lot of moderately kabu-qualified rikishi. The Kyokai's employment extension to age 70 for willing oyakata - and they mostly are - hasn't helped, but we'd be back to a supply crunch by now even without that, I reckon.

In broad strokes, I'd say anyone ex-sekiwake and above will continue to find spots without much issue if they're interested, and below that is where happenstance, connections and having a good reputation come into play in trying to get into the club. The reputation part is the really tricky thing for us fans - I have no doubt that it matters a lot when a still-active sekitori is known to be good at teaching younger rikishi, or known as having a good mind for business matters, but we mostly just hear about that with guys who are no-doubt future oyakata / future heya owners anyway. It's the many back-benchers where we have little idea who among them the incumbent members are likely to consider a strong addition to their ranks.

Edited by Asashosakari
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So do we think Shohozan will be okay? He and Kaisei are the ones I'm most concerned about at the moment, and while the Brazilian should be able to hang on as sekitori for at least one more basho, things look really dire for Shohozan.

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A trivia list of a different kind: Makuuchi yusho winners who did not become (permanent) oyakata. 15-day era since 1949 [full list], sorted by retirement date.

Wakahaguro - highest rank ozeki, 1 yusho
Tamanoumi - yokozuna, 6, died while active
Kotofuji - sekiwake, 1, ~four years on loan only
Akebono - yokozuna, 11, ~three years of automatic 5-year grace period only
Asashoryu - yokozuna, 22, no citizenship, unwanted anyway
Kotomitsuki - ozeki, 1, dismissed as rikishi
Baruto - ozeki, 1, no citizenship
Harumafuji - yokozuna, 9, no citizenship
Kakuryu - yokozuna, 6, currently in automatic 5-year grace period

currently active yusho winners: Asanoyama, Daieisho, Mitakeumi, Shodai, Takakeisho, Tamawashi, Terunofuji, Tochinoshin, Tokushoryu, Wakatakakage

Tokushoryu is the one whose future made me wonder about this just now. Of course he's rather special in that he won a yusho but was never ranked in sanyaku. (There's only one other rikishi like that, from well before 1949.)

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Reonito said:

So do we think Shohozan will be okay? He and Kaisei are the ones I'm most concerned about at the moment, and while the Brazilian should be able to hang on as sekitori for at least one more basho, things look really dire for Shohozan.

The solution to this puzzle requires someone who knows why Shōhōzan stayed on after Nishonoseki became Hanaregoma. A heya handover would have been a natural inflection point to retire, but he chose to stay on. I believe there's an interview where he might have talked about it but I can't recall its contents offhand, and if he has another goal to achieve then changing divisions might not put an end to his career either. In any case, I'm not worried for him, since Araiso is probably saved for him by ex-Wakashimazu, and there's also always the possibility of just borrowing Nishikijima for a bit now that ex-Asashio is persona non grata with the NSK.

Kaisei probably can access Tomozuna, with ex-Kaiki's sanyō almost running out anyway. It's Kyokutaisei that has a problem, not Kaisei, methinks, especially now that Kyokutaisei has not completed two bashō in a row and is sliding deeper and deeper into the unpaid ranks - a sign of waiting for something?

13 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

currently active yusho winners: Asanoyama, Daieisho, Mitakeumi, Shodai, Takakeisho, Tamawashi, Terunofuji, Tochinoshin, Tokushoryu, Wakatakakage

Takakeishō and Terunofuji are almost certainly not joining that list, and Tochinoshin is almost definitely joining that list. The rest bar Tokushōryū and Tamawashi all have some time left to go so I don't think they're overly worried just yet. Speaking of Tamawashi, he's applying for citizenship so it seems to imply he wants to continue with the NSK, but there doesn't seem to be any slots at Kataonami for him and his current shisho took over not that long ago either, so it's not a Sōkokurai situation.

Edited by Seiyashi
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1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

The solution to this puzzle requires someone who knows why Shōhōzan stayed on after Nishonoseki became Hanaregoma. A heya handover would have been a natural inflection point to retire, but he chose to stay on.

My recollection (from a Chris Gould video?) was that he stayed on because no kabu was available to him, but I don't remember the details and have no idea how accurate this was.

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2 hours ago, Reonito said:

My recollection (from a Chris Gould video?) was that he stayed on because no kabu was available to him, but I don't remember the details and have no idea how accurate this was.

It would be a horrible thing if Shohozan were to come up dry; almost 70 basho as a sekitori and a Komosubi five different times over five years.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

currently active yusho winners: Asanoyama, Daieisho, Mitakeumi, Shodai, Takakeisho, Tamawashi, Terunofuji, Tochinoshin, Tokushoryu, Wakatakakage

I'm actually wondering about Asanoyama... as a former Ozeki, he'd be a pretty sure bet as someone who will get a kabu, but with his past I'm not so sure he'll get it in the end.

After all he did lied to JSA and made them look foolish when they defended him based on his lies (a far bigger crime than anything he was nominally suspended for)... and by doing what he did not only he managed to make JSA look bad, but he also caused current Takasago an demotion and loss of income (if I remember correctly), making me wonder how much will current Takasago be willing to fight for him. 

Basically, at this point I have a feeling that his only shot at kabu is to get Nishikijama...

Edited by Ripe

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1 hour ago, Ripe said:

I'm actually wondering about Asanoyama... as a former Ozeki, he'd be a pretty sure bet as someone who will get a kabu, but with his past I'm not so sure he'll get it in the end.

After all he did lied to JSA and made them look foolish when they defended him based on his lies (a far bigger crime than anything he was nominally suspended for)... and by doing what he did not only he managed to make JSA look bad, but he also caused current Takasago an demotion and loss of income (if I remember correctly), making me wonder how much will current Takasago be willing to fight for him. 

Basically, at this point I have a feeling that his only shot at kabu is to get Nishikijama...

wonder if JSA would be really against this Nishikijama business, as the parallel doesn't look good lmao. 

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Kabu have been "cursed" before, Hakuhō's Magaki has a funny track record of its owners leaving the NSK before their time is up, whether by death or choice, and two successive holders of Tokitsukaze have also exited under scandalous circumstances. But that's neither here nor there.

Speaking of Asanoyama, the fact that he's not out of sumo entirely is at least a good sign that his future is not entirely foreclosed. Abi and Ryūden have also been in the doghouse and are now fighting their way back up, Abi to even greater heights, and it seems that Abi's rehabilitation is at least mostly there given that he's gotten back his sekitori privilege of living out of the heya and he's demonstrated enough contrition and remorse. So it's not impossible for rikishi to earn their way back into favour with the NSK by making the right noises and doing good sumo.

In Asanoyama's case, his very long fall means it'll take even longer to come back up, but if he does and remains a makuuchi mainstay for the rest of his career, then chances are good he'll eventually be allowed to retire as an oyakata if he wants to. Naturally, that's a big if as to whether he comes back up; Kintamayama has a gut feel on the matter that he won't, but we'll see.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Speaking of Asanoyama, the fact that he's not out of sumo entirely is at least a good sign that his future is not entirely foreclosed. Abi and Ryūden have also been in the doghouse and are now fighting their way back up, Abi to even greater heights, and it seems that Abi's rehabilitation is at least mostly there given that he's gotten back his sekitori privilege of living out of the heya and he's demonstrated enough contrition and remorse. So it's not impossible for rikishi to earn their way back into favour with the NSK by making the right noises and doing good sumo.

In Asanoyama's case, his very long fall means it'll take even longer to come back up, but if he does and remains a makuuchi mainstay for the rest of his career, then chances are good he'll eventually be allowed to retire as an oyakata if he wants to. Naturally, that's a big if as to whether he comes back up; Kintamayama has a gut feel on the matter that he won't, but we'll see.

Yeah, but unlike Abi and Ryuden, when questioned about it, Asanoyama lied to JSA which led to their public defense of him against accusations by the tabloid... only for accusations to be proven true.

Getting out of a doghouse for breaking the rule might come in time for Asanoyama... but getting out of one in which he found himself for making several Oyakata look foolish is going to be a hard task. One that might require all the involved Oyakata to retire...

Edited by Ripe

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I mean, sure, if you place particular emphasis on his lying then you have a point, but then my counter question to you is, if the NSK feels that strongly about it, why didn't they just kick him out of sumo in the first place? He submitted his papers, so the NSK would have had a prime excuse to accept them and terminate his future in sumo for good, if they felt that making them look bad was that unforgivable.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I mean, sure, if you place particular emphasis on his lying then you have a point, but then my counter question to you is, if the NSK feels that strongly about it, why didn't they just kick him out of sumo in the first place? He submitted his papers, so the NSK would have had a prime excuse to accept them and terminate his future in sumo for good, if they felt that making them look bad was that unforgivable.

Maybe they sat there, in the middle of 2021, and pondered the shusshin of the last seven Yokozuna.

Edited by Yamanashi
  • Haha 2

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