Benihana

Natsu 2022 Discussion Thread - here be spoilers

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

His first step is far to the right, then his next step is far to the right and he simultaneously swivels to the side, avoiding a full on clash (again, see my image). That's standard henka stuff. 

Some type of glancing contact happens all the time with 'normal' henka as well, whether all contact is avoided isn't what makes a henka; it's that one rikishi performs an evasive movement to the side from the tachiai, as Hoshoryu clearly did when both his steps went way to the side and he turned his body.

It's just a particular version of a henka. 

This wasn't a glancing move. He puts has hand on his left shoulder while moving right.  His pushes off with his left foot and moves right. He's avoided nothing. Waka has just failed in his attempt to do what he wanted. Not the same as a henka. By your definition Hokutofuji here has henkaed and I don't think anyone would describe what he does here as a henka. It's just less dramatic and less effective because he wants to push as opposed to Hoshouryu who is going for a grip. 

Forgot to include video.

 

Edited by Rocks

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Haramufuji's HNH's were usually shoulder hits, followed by a sidestep. HNH has seemingly now evolved to just putting your hand on the shoulder. To me, that's different, but I guess it doesn't ultimately matter whether we all agree.

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Posted (edited)

It definitely was a henka. His first two steps off the tachiai are way to the right and he spins his body with the motion, putting him far to Waka's side and avoiding pretty much any head on clash. That isn't a Hokutofuji brain bashing tachiai at all.

Like I said, whatever you want to call them, there is very little difference between the movements performed by Hoshoryu and a 'normal' henka.

Edited by Katooshu

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3 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

It definitely was a henka. His first two steps off the tachiai are way to the right and he spins his body with the motion, leaving him far to Waka's side with hardly any head on clash. That isn't a Hokutofuji tachiai at all.

If Hokutofuji had gone for a grip with his left hand there then pushed from behind it would literally be exactly the same thing Hoshuryu did using his right.  Yet no one, including the narrator here who uses this very match to show what a henka isn't, thinks Hikutofuji henkaed.  I don't see how two things so similar can lead one to conclude Hoshuryu definitely henkaed.   If Hokutofuji had taken a second step left he'd suddenly be henkaing? Failing to meet a charge directly head on is not the same as avoiding a charge altogether. THAT would be a henka.  That's a good video by the way. Don't forget to watch for a cameo by @Kintamayama

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Posted (edited)

Hokutofuji doesn't take a second step way to the right and simultaneously swivel his body so he is completely to the side of his opponent, facing a different direction, and out of the way of a direct hit, leaving the opponent to tumble forward off balance because there is nothing in front of them. His style is quite the opposite.

Harumafuji pulled many henka too, I think some people just didn't like admitting it. 

Edited by Katooshu

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Kaisho read him like a children’s book…

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Well, unlike historians who ponder the reasons for the Bronze Age Collapse or the meaning of "Croatoan", we can probably ask the person or persons who first coined the phrase "HNH" and find out what they had in mind.

Off topic: archaeologists, not historians. I am an archaeologist and I am never amused by this frequent mix-up. It's just like somebody doing a henka, let's say. Historians mainly work on documents and their main focus is the "grand history" (kings, queens, wars & co.) and shift to everyday life only whether enough written documents are available. Archaeologists are the opposite: they focus on material evidence and use written texts (when available) as a secondary source. Both the Bronze Age Collapse and the Roanoke issue belong to archaeological research. In the first case, the only written sources are the "Amarna Letters" and the "Ramses III Stela" which barely cover the point of view of Egyptians and Hittites. As the Collapse involved the whole Mediterranean, evidence for burnt settlements and similar things is essential to make up a more complete picture. Roanoke is not much different. The only written source is the report from the rescue expedition, which reports the famed "Croatoan" message. Archaeologists were required both to dig up the Roanoke settlement and to look up for British settlements on Hatteras Island (the most likely Croatoan).

Ok, embolism time off. Back to the topic, as everybody can guess I am not a 100% fan of either henka and HNH. I mean, I accept them as part of the game but I'd prefer kirishi to use them only when strictly necessary since they virtually avoid fighting. Sure, they are highly technical moves and therefore rikishi able to successfully execute them "deserve" their wins. Yet again, it's a matter of circumstances for me. Generally speaking, I am more prone to accept them during the final days of a tournament, when rikishi are pressured to not drop any more bouts either to get their KK or to win the yusho race. A henka (or HNH) on day 5 against a perfectly even opponent is a total lack of taste for me, not to mention a lack of respect towards a fellow san'yaku. Long story short, I am going to wear my Daieisho t-shirt (which I don't have) today.

Edited by Hankegami
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Russia invades Ukraine, Shanghai goes into lockdown, and now Aoiyama as sole leader of a honbasho ... the chaos of 2022 continues.

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Aoiyama is a much more known quantity than ex-co-leader Ichiyamamoto. I predict a 10-5 finish, or 11-4 at most. 

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What's wrong with Takarafuji this basho?  Injured? 

 

 

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Wakamotoharu's attempt to follow his brother's yusho takes a hit, losing to a well executed tottari by Kotoeko. A little more space and that could have become an ipponzeoi. Looked like Waka hurt his elbow though.

What's up with Onosho that's caused him to drop out? 

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9 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Wakamotoharu's attempt to follow his brother's yusho takes a hit, losing to a well executed tottari by Kotoeko. A little more space and that could have become an ipponzeoi. Looked like Waka hurt his elbow though.

What's up with Onosho that's caused him to drop out? 

He got his ribbed cracked by Hokutofuji’s knee yesterday. 

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6 minutes ago, rhyen said:

He got his ribbed cracked by Hokutofuji’s knee yesterday. 

Pff. He's got other ribs.

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Wakatakakage wins the rematch of last basho's playoff over Takayasu. Not as high stakes this time, obviously, but I'm sure Taka wanted that one.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Wakatakakage wins the rematch of last basho's playoff over Takayasu. Not as high stakes this time, obviously, but I'm sure Taka wanted that one.

This was actually a very important bout for them both IMHO. Wakatakakage is chasing Ozeki, while Takayasu is trying to save his basho. With this, Waka kept his 3 losses and left both chances open (direct promotion with a 12-3 or buildup for next basho with a 11-4 or 10-5). Takayasu on the other hand is now 1-5 and can allow himself only 2 more losses before going MK.

Edited by Hankegami

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Breaking news: Shodai still sucks.

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1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

Breaking news: Shodai still sucks.

Yeah. He literally tried to pull another on-the-rope switching sides win (like against Takayasu) but Takanosho fooled him. His problem is he basically botches his tachi-ai so he must always fight on the rope. This is an extremely dangerous strategy - if not outright stupid - since one puts himself literally on the edge.

In the meanwhile, Mita showed how to properly grab your opponent's mawashi at the tachi-ai without doing henka. Again about henka, Hoshoryu pushed out Daieisho in a very remarkable manner. I almost forgive him for yesterday with this. Almost.

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Tamawashi hunting that second yusho!

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Dang, I admit I didn't expect this. I mean, I knew Tamawashi was on fire this basho, but I was positive Teru adjusted to it. Evidently, Terunofuji's knees have limits and cannot hold their own against strong oshi wrestlers anymore.

Now, Tamawashi is officially leading the catch up to Aoiyama alongside Tobizaru, Sadanoumi and Ichiyamamoto. I am just plain confused.

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Nodowa and arm bars seem to be all the vogue this year.

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Ooh, Tamawashi really is in beast mode!

Btw, a henka is simply sidestepping at any point in the bout, not just at the tachi-ai. Most of you seem to admire nifty tawara footwork and never think of it as henka, but it is. Current leader Aoiyama uses the henka as his main technique: push and thrust, henka and pull - really, how many times have you seen him do just that?

The henka that is so disliked is one that avoids the impact at the tachi-ai. I get that: we want a show, and bouts like Hoshoryu vs Wakatakakage and Mitakeumi vs Hokutofuji don't give us that.
What I don't get is why no one whines about Ura. He may not henka at the tachi-ai very often, but he nearly always avoids any tachi-ai impact. That's not sumo.

 

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Regarding Hoshoryu's Schrödinger henka, if my memory serves me right Wakatakakage side-stepped him two bashos ago, didn't he? Payback is fair play. Plus I personally don't mind henkas that much, I think it's just part of the sport and find amusement in people charging with all their might and falling on their face, usually.

Takayasu does not seem to be very genki this basho.

Watching Shodai is tiresome.

Nice win for Tamawashi! I'm happy he's getting all these kinboshi. Good for him. I don't think he's gonna be in contention by the end but I would love it if he was. On the other hand, Terunofuji getting densha-michi'd like this is sad to see. Last year he said he was gonna aim for double-digit title wins this year, but who knows if we'll see him get another one.

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That henka from Mitakeumi was awful.   B-)

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Ura just seems to have a very endearing and respectful demeanor. The injury, comeback, re-injury and return to top division level is remarkable. Plenty of fighting spirit too. All that makes it easier to empathize with or sort-of forgive the non-contact approach, I think.

Shodai is just blown away at the tachi-ai, and that just happens far too often.

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