Natsu 2022 Discussion Thread - here be spoilers

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Kotoshoho and Nishikigi leaving nothing in the ring today! Great tussle. 

Terutsuyoshi and Tochinoshin also delivering plenty of entertainment. Tochi tried the trademark tsuridashi but Teru defended well.

Wakamotoharu snatching victory at the death there with some fine balance and strength on the bales. Some good bouts today.

Wakatakakage gets a good win over Endo. Needed that. Can't afford too many slip ups this week.

Shodai, Shodai, Shodai ... yet another basho opened with a streak of losses. I would say good win for Daieisho, but ...

Edited May 10, 2022 by Eikokurai

[Akinomaki 39,798]

39 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Terutsuyoshi and Tochinoshin also delivering plenty of entertainment. Tochi tried the trademark tsuridashi but Teru defended well.

I'd rather say Terutsuyoshi tried Tochinoshin's trademark tsuridashi on him and prevailed

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Good win for Kotonowaka. Bad loss for the gyoji though. Not sure why he gave the win to Mitakeumi first, tbh. Even if he thought it was close, you give it to the guy still on his feet, surely.

[Hakuryuho 334]

Kotonowaka casually winning against all three Ozeki in the first three days.

Is it too early to already address him as Kotozakura? 

[rhyen 1,809]

Mitakeumi got the memo from the other two ozeki

[Eikokurai 3,433]

All three Ozeki lose today …

[Hankegami 412]

I'm the only one to not be impressed by the second day straight where Kotonowaka won basically thanks to the shimpan? Yesterday they didn't call a mono-ii despite the outcome was not clear at all. Today they reversed the gyoji's decision. Personally, I would have called for a torinaoshi in both cases. I was particularly unimpressed by noticing that today's head shimpan was Sadogatake-oyakata, Kotonowaka's stable master not to mention his own father. I understand there are a few "son of" in sumo, but I would have expected a shimpan to excuse himself from judging his own son, nephew or whatever.

Yesterday some justified the non-monoii by suggesting the oyakata wanted to be hard on Shodai. But Mitakeumi? Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the skills of Kotonowaka, but I am troubled by noticing he was totally favored for two days in a row.

EDIT: Just re-watched Mitakeumi vs. Kotonowaka. In my opinion Kotonowaka's right heel touched the clay while Mitakeumi was still mid-air. I have a hard time considering Mitakeumi a "dead body" since he gave a side push to Kotonowaka. Assigning the victory to Kotonowaka still appears exceedingly generous to me.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Hankegami

[Eikokurai 3,433]

9 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

I'm the only one to not be impressed by the second day straight where Kotonowaka won basically thanks to the shimpan? Yesterday they didn't call a mono-ii despite the outcome was not clear at all. Today they reversed the gyoji's decision. Personally, I would have called for a torinaoshi in both cases. I was particularly unimpressed by noticing that today's head shimpan was Sadogatake-oyakata, Kotonowaka's stable master not to mention his own father. I understand there are a few "son of" in sumo, but I would have expected a shimpan to excuse himself from judging his own son, nephew or whatever.

Yesterday some justified the non-monoii by suggesting the oyakata wanted to be hard on Shodai. But Mitakeumi? Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the skills of Kotonowaka, but I am troubled by noticing he was totally favored for two days in a row.

Looked like a clear defeat to Mitakeumi to me, to be honest. Mita was airborne and in no control of his own fate. No issue for me counting him as dead body.

[Hankegami 412]

5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Looked like a clear defeat to Mitakeumi to me, to be honest. Mita was airborne and in no control of his own fate. No issue for me counting him as dead body.

Sorry, I was editing while you were replying. As I wrote above in my edit, I am not sure he was dead body... But even admitting he was, I also pointed out that Kotonowaka apparently touched the clay much earlier with his right heel. To my knowledge (which is not really grand), touched first vs. dead body calls for a torinaoshi. That was my point.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Hankegami

[specialweek 2 136]

Heel did not touch, replay showed that. Dead body rule invoked. Torinaoshi might have been better but not the right call. 

[RabidJohn 1,665]

I also thought it was a torinaoshi for Mitakeumi and Kotonowaka, but it is what it is. I hadn't realised Sadogatake was head shimpan for the bout, though...
I've no problem with a rikishi's own oyakata being involved in the judging as long as they're like Isegahama is with Terunofuji. I often get the impression he routinely votes against his deshi, simply so there's no hint of favouritism.
I believe Kotonowaka is already better than his dad was, so he doesn't need it.

Some more damn fine sumo today. Much to enjoy.

---

@HankegamiThanks. January 2019 doesn't feel like more than 3 years ago to me, but that's my age showing. I was aware of the Nishonoseki grooming that seems to be happening, but Naruto seems to have taken a very long time to get to shimpan compared to, say, moto-Kyokutenho, who's been doing it for several years now.

[Hankegami 412]

4 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

 

@HankegamiThanks. January 2019 doesn't feel like more than 3 years ago to me, but that's my age showing. I was aware of the Nishonoseki grooming that seems to be happening, but Naruto seems to have taken a very long time to get to shimpan compared to, say, moto-Kyokutenho, who's been doing it for several years now.

You're most welcome. Kotooshu undertook a BA in sumo training methods immediately following his retirement in 2014, and opened Naruto-beya only in 2017. Perhaps he was not much involved in oyakata stuff during 2014-2017.

[Leo C 52]

I think Kotonowaka (or as I like to call him, titty titty) is going to win this basho.

[hakutorizakura 590]

Terunofuji is probably alright, which means that he is still the top yusho contender. It almost seems like he slammed Kiribayama down to the dohyo there, but could be just my eye.

Shodai...yoooo, wake up bro.... Kintamayama is calling..

 

[Asapedroryu 227]

2 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I've no problem with a rikishi's own oyakata being involved in the judging as long as they're like Isegahama is with Terunofuji. I often get the impression he routinely votes against his deshi, simply so there's no hint of favouritism.

That's not good either.

He should be neutral and not vote against his own rikishi so he can look good in other people eyes.

In my view, if a head judge has 10 monoies involving his deshi or even family and in those 10 his rikishi won, he should vote in favour of the 10. Doing otherwise is just being unprofessional.

 

[Hankegami 412]

3 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I've no problem with a rikishi's own oyakata being involved in the judging as long as they're like Isegahama is with Terunofuji. I often get the impression he routinely votes against his deshi, simply so there's no hint of favouritism.

24 minutes ago, Asapedroryu said:

That's not good either.

He should be neutral and not vote against his own rikishi so he can look good in other people eyes.

In my view, if a head judge has 10 monoies involving his deshi or even family and in those 10 his rikishi won, he should vote in favour of the 10. Doing otherwise is just being unprofessional.

Of course a shinpan has to be neutral. There are five judges for a reason. I was however baffled by the fact that Sadogatake, Kotonowaka's stable master and father, was not just a shinpan but the head shinpan of all things. This means he was the guy in charge of telling them whatever the video room communicated. This gave him a huge influence on the other judges. Of course it does not mean he actually manipulated his colleagues today, but this kind of discourse should not be brought up at all to begin with.

I repeat, I am baffled that the NSK has no anti-nepotism rules for shinpan. Being the stable master is one thing (although it's already a relative issue), being the stable master and the father of one of the rikishi is a completely different one, and being the stable master and the father and the head shinpan is another yet again.

Given there are about 100 oyakata, I cannot see why no backup plan was ever put up. A thumb rule should be that the head shinpan (not all the shinpan, just the head since he is also in charge of contacting the video room) must not be the stable master of either rikishi fighting at the moment. I reckon they have a spare shinpan system so to substitute a judge whether necessary. They would just have to switch roles for one match.

IMHO

Edited May 10, 2022 by Hankegami

[since_94 650]

Juryo bout between Akua and Kitanowaka delivered big time. Both times. We are entertained.

Midorifuji was impressive in doggedly clinging to Kotokuzan’s mawashi despite a barrage of abuse to his upper body and face. Showed toughness and grit.

Oho looked poised picking up his win over Chiyotairyu. Cool and collected. He had ring sense like some hockey players have puck sense. They grow up around it and pick it up instinctively, perhaps.

Tochinoshin and Terutsuyoshi trying to outdo one another with lift outs was awesomely fun to watch.

Tamawashi / Onosho was a good tilt, with the more experienced man prevailing.

Terunofuji looked very solid with that slam. Authoritative. Uh huh.

[Sumo Spiffy 535]

1 hour ago, since_94 said:

Tochinoshin and Terutsuyoshi trying to outdo one another with lift outs was awesomely fun to watch.

There were so many good fights and I was still thinking about this one. I was like, Teru, no, don't let him do it to you two bashos in a row, and then he tried doing it to Tochi? I'm here for all of it.

Just an incredible day in all.

[dingo 1,160]

Poor Meisei, I hope he's not bound for Jokoryu's trajectory...

Well I expected that Tochinoshin will attempt to lift out Terutsuyoshi, but didn't expect it would go the other way around. Terutsuyoshi is small enough to get under almost every makuuchi rikishi, but at the same time strong enough to effectively unbalance them from beneath.

Very straightforward sumo from Ura. He certainly knows to pick his battles.

Tamawashi is doing excellently. Truly the ironman.

Wow, Wakatakakage! Today he was always in control, never in doubt. This looks like sumo of a higher rank, but I don't dare to say which 

Kotonowaka... let's say I was not convinced. Torinaoshi would've been the right decision. I know the sample size is very low, but the shimpan seem to be sending a message to the ozeki who don't win convincingly enough. 

[RabidJohn 1,665]

2 hours ago, Asapedroryu said:

He should be neutral and not vote against his own rikishi so he can look good in other people eyes.

I agree. I was being facetious, remembering that little run of decisions he had to announce against Terunofuji last year (some of which may have been the year before that).

38 minutes ago, dingo said:

Tamawashi is doing excellently. Truly the ironman. 

Yes, he's found his mojo again. I'm uncertain why some people are calling it Kotonowaka's or Terunofuji's basho when there's this former yusho winner on top form. He could even get one of his ultra-rare wins against Mitakeumi.

[Gurowake 3,922]

5 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I'm uncertain why some people are calling it Kotonowaka's or Terunofuji's basho when there's this former yusho winner on top form. He could even get one of his ultra-rare wins against Mitakeumi.

Kotonowaka has beaten 3 Ozeki.  Tamawashi hasn't faced them yet.  Although given the records of the Ozeki one might say Tamawashi has had the harder schedule so far...

[dingo 1,160]

Tamawashi tends to lose some not-too-challenging bouts sometimes. Still, not many other rikishi seem to be in high gear from the start of the basho. For me it's still too early to call, and if I would call it I would be wrong anyway.

That being said its high time for a hiramaku yusho so this is Ichiyamamoto's basho 

 

[Fashiritētā 169]

Wakatakakage is still the guy to beat, great bouts today, Kotonowaka has a very bright future,  the young guns are giving great effort.

SHODAI WTF, THATS NOT OZEKI SUMO

[Seregost 130]

2 hours ago, Fashiritētā said:

Wakatakakage is still the guy to beat, great bouts today, Kotonowaka has a very bright future,  the young guns are giving great effort.

SHODAI WTF, THATS NOT OZEKI SUMO

That wasn't even sumo at all xD

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

2 hours ago, Fashiritētā said:

SHODAI WTF, THATS NOT OZEKI SUMO

By the current standards, it was.