Benihana

Natsu 2022 Discussion Thread - here be spoilers

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And a good run by Kotonowaka. Bravo !

Look dominant like Kisenosato several times.

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3 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

It's his debut, he found a thing that worked for him, and by jingo he was going to try for it every chance he got. Even if he didn't get a chance he still went for it. It's like a novice chess player who wins a match with the Grob (g4) and is convinced that he has the game solved.

On a related note, Akua finally got his kakenage (Laughing...)

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3 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

It's more minutiae than asked for, but 2022 Hatsu saw Sawaisamu fight an eighth bout for the second time in his long career, nearly 14 years after the first. That was a 4-4 result, and he's the last active rikishi to have one of those.

Shonanzakura, AKA Hattorizakura, the LOAT (Lousiest of all time), recorded four 0-8 records in his career.  In each of these basho, he lost to a "1-0-6" rikishi for both his seventh and eighth losses.

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7 hours ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

Has there ever been an Ōzeki who cleared his kadoban status with a yūshō AND won a yūshō in the next basho as well? I'm genuinely curious and apologize in advance for being to stupid to work the database properly (Bow...)

Not yusho+yusho, but there has been an ozeki who became yokozuna with the next two results after a makekoshi (in 15-bout tournaments): Link

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12 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Not yusho+yusho, but there has been an ozeki who became yokozuna with the next two results after a makekoshi (in 15-bout tournaments): Link

Before the introduction of the kadoban system, right? Not sure how ozeki demotions worked prior to that.

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Posted (edited)

Awesome basho! Terunofuji definitely deserves that one, IMO. The Hoshoryu-Kiribayama match on senshuraku was really fun to watch, battle of the up-and-coming Mongolian rikishi. Wakatakage also continuing to impress. The future is bright, my fellow sumo fans. 

Edited by Kaminariyuki
typo

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Are their any reports about Hoshoryu being injured in his match with Kiribayama? He appeared to be favoring a knee after the loss.

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I found that the most uninspiring damp squib basho I've ever watched. There were some highlights to be had (eg Terutsoyoshi over Tochinoshin), but the capitulation of the Ozeki just left me going "meh" at the end. The one highlight was Kotonowaka's strong showing. If he keeps that up, and Asanoyama comes back to his previous position then we've got something to look forward to. Roll on July, it can only get better from here.

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5 hours ago, Reonito said:

Before the introduction of the kadoban system, right? Not sure how ozeki demotions worked prior to that.

I'm not sure if it was as formalized as today (especially in the lack of discretion for the committee), but ja.wiki says that back-to-back makekoshi was normally the demotion criterion from the 1927 beginning of the modern era until the expansion to six annual tournaments, and the record seems to bear that out: demotion or intai after all double MK (and no case of a triple MK), and no demotions after a single MK.

(I've started the queries at 1932 rather than 1927 to avoid the weird stuff they did the first few years with multiple basho results counting for one banzuke-making, and the like.)

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Morty said:

I found that the most uninspiring damp squib basho I've ever watched. There were some highlights to be had (eg Terutsoyoshi over Tochinoshin), but the capitulation of the Ozeki just left me going "meh" at the end. The one highlight was Kotonowaka's strong showing. If he keeps that up, and Asanoyama comes back to his previous position then we've got something to look forward to. Roll on July, it can only get better from here.

I agree. I generally care far more about competitiveness than anything else, but this basho seemed especially unimpressive and maybe for the first time a lack of quality dampened the experience for me.

The most positive thing for me is that there is a lot of solid talent in lower sanyaku and high maegashira. Several guys with potential to reach ozeki or be sanyaku mainstays, rather than just a bunch of alternating one-time in a career komusubi. Wakatakakage, Hoshoryu, Abi, Daieisho, Kiribiyama, Kotonowaka.

Edited by Katooshu
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32 minutes ago, Morty said:

I found that the most uninspiring damp squib basho I've ever watched. There were some highlights to be had (eg Terutsoyoshi over Tochinoshin), but the capitulation of the Ozeki just left me going "meh" at the end. The one highlight was Kotonowaka's strong showing. If he keeps that up, and Asanoyama comes back to his previous position then we've got something to look forward to. Roll on July, it can only get better from here.

I agree about the Ozeki, although there were some good bouts, as well. I concur with Katooshu above. Even though I've been a big Hakuho fan, I find the current more competitive bashos far more entertaining and interesting than when we pretty much knew who was going to win before it started. And I thought the sumo was excellent. We clearly appreciate different styles. The changing of the guard we've been talking about for years is clearly well underway. I doubt any of the current Ozeki will hold that rank by next natsu. Although Aoiyama did very well, even showing some footwork here and there, I prefer the leaner seriously engaged and fast moving action of the last two bashos.

I was pretty bummed that Ura was forced to go kyujo at the end. I hope he recovers quickly but I haven't heard what the situation is there.

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41 minutes ago, Morty said:

Roll on July, it can only get better from here.

There is another option.  :-(

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18 hours ago, Rocks said:

Macaroon is gold.

Macaroon is gold good.

FTFY

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Add me to the list of those who were underwhelmed with this basho overall. I'm glad Terunofuji restored some order by the end.

That said, it was good to see some fighting spirit in some of the veterans, such as Sadanoumi and Tochinoshin. Ura was great, he injury is unfortunate for many reasons, hopefully it's healed for Nagoya.

Kotonowaka was solid, he looks like he'll be the real deal before too long. He and Wakatakakage are the two I have my eye on, those obviously there are many promising youngsters as already said by Kotooshu a few posts up.

On Wakatakakage, 9-6 following a 1st time yusho at Sekiwake is pretty respectable. There have been 20 rikishi in the 6-basho era who won their first yusho as Sekiwake - the median follow-up is 9 wins. Of those 20, 10 went on to become Yokozuna, 7 ozeki (inc. Mitakeumi and Shoda), and only 2 remained as Sekiwake if you exclude Wakatakakage.

That's a ~90% success rate to go on to one of the top two ranks out of that group. More if you don't include the still active Tamawashi ... but I think we agree his ship has sailed. 

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It was a strange one. On paper, a basho with no clear frontrunner, the lead changing hands a few times, and a potential four-way playoff should be an exciting one, being competitive and that, but it never quite felt like it in reality. I think what the basho lacked was a core narrative running through it that we could get behind. The winner sort of snuck up and took it late on after starting poorly. The 4-man playoff possibility emerged almost by surprise late on. The lead changing hands was more a case of people slipping up than anything. Overall, the basho just sort of limped from scene to scene without a story arc or character development. 

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14 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It was a strange one. On paper, a basho with no clear frontrunner, the lead changing hands a few times, and a potential four-way playoff should be an exciting one, being competitive and that, but it never quite felt like it in reality. I think what the basho lacked was a core narrative running through it that we could get behind. The winner sort of snuck up and took it late on after starting poorly. The 4-man playoff possibility emerged almost by surprise late on. The lead changing hands was more a case of people slipping up than anything. Overall, the basho just sort of limped from scene to scene without a story arc or character development. 

I think this may explain the lack of overall enthusiasm expressed by a number of posters. While I watched everyday, I likewise didn’t feel  emotionally invested in the outcome. As soon as the final bout ended on Day 15, I turned the broadcast off instead of watching all the awards being presented. There were some entertaining bouts throughout the tournament though, to be fair.

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21 hours ago, Hankegami said:

Consider that Shodai has a recurring pattern, however. It's not just one bad basho. He basically never show up. I am not arguing he has his reasons (lack of confidence, imposter syndrome, depression), but we just cannot have a perfectly healthy Ozeki playing swing every odd basho. That's also destructive for the basho itself. He just gives points around in the first week just to rush and rack up eight wins in the second to the dismay of rikishi actually in need of their KK. A Maegashira playing the same game would slowly fall in Juryo. And a Yokozuna doing the same would be undoubtedly targeted by the YDC (damn, Shodai as a Yokozuna would barely show up at all, wouldn't he?).

Ahh, takes me right back to the Kaio-Chiyotaikai era. I liked those guys. 

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It felt like no one really wanted to win the Cup.

Peculiar basho.

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2 hours ago, dingo said:

Ahh, takes me right back to the Kaio-Chiyotaikai era. I liked those guys. 

Those guys were around so long it took me a while to realize Ozeki could even be demoted, haha. Kotooshu was the other one active when I got into sumo and he had the rank for years too (47 basho) It took a while for me to accept that Kaio, Chiyo and Koto were more the exception than the rule.

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The highlight for me this basho was Sadanoumi. I love his fast-paced yotsu- style and it will be great to see him up against the joi in Nagoya. I don't expect he'll be there for long but I'm hoping for some spectacular wins at the edge.

The flip-side was Takarafuji putting in his second really disappointing basho in a row. It will be strange to think of him as rikishi no. 4 at Isegahama. I've not heard of any injuries this time so maybe it's just age.

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50 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

The highlight for me this basho was Sadanoumi. I love his fast-paced yotsu- style and it will be great to see him up against the joi in Nagoya. I don't expect he'll be there for long but I'm hoping for some spectacular wins at the edge.

The flip-side was Takarafuji putting in his second really disappointing basho in a row. It will be strange to think of him as rikishi no. 4 at Isegahama. I've not heard of any injuries this time so maybe it's just age.

Well, he was Rikishi no .4 back when Terunofuji first made Ozeki.

Harumafuji and Terunofuji outranked him and Aminishiki was the super senior in the stable. 

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On 22/05/2022 at 11:39, Hankegami said:

Consider that Shodai has a recurring pattern, however. It's not just one bad basho. He basically never show up. I am not arguing he has his reasons (lack of confidence, imposter syndrome, depression), but we just cannot have a perfectly healthy Ozeki playing swing every odd basho. That's also destructive for the basho itself. He just gives points around in the first week just to rush and rack up eight wins in the second to the dismay of rikishi actually in need of their KK. A Maegashira playing the same game would slowly fall in Juryo. And a Yokozuna doing the same would be undoubtedly targeted by the YDC (damn, Shodai as a Yokozuna would barely show up at all, wouldn't he?).

Maybe I shouldn't, but I take it personally when people fail to factor long COVID in Shodai's lack of form, honestly. It's been almost 18 months for me and I've never been the same in many levels. It's perfectly valid that this is a bigger factor than any of those outlined above - and frankly, watching his bouts lately and knowing what to look for, it does make complete sense. He used to win long bouts all the time, and now he only really seems to win whenever he's not asked for sustained periods of focus and/or physical exertion.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Maybe I shouldn't, but I take it personally when people fail to factor long COVID in Shodai's lack of form, honestly. It's been almost 18 months for me and I've never been the same in many levels. It's perfectly valid that this is a bigger factor than any of those outlined above - and frankly, watching his bouts lately and knowing what to look for, it does make complete sense. He used to win long bouts all the time, and now he only really seems to win whenever he's not asked for sustained periods of focus and/or physical exertion.

I may be misremembering, but I believe there was an interview where he said something to that effect, that he was still dealing with covid symptoms even though he "recovered" a while ago. If long COVID can be such a burden to regular-bodied people, I can't even imagine what it must be like for someone that weighs nearly 170kg and has poor cardio.

Edited by Leoben

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9 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Maybe I shouldn't, but I take it personally when people fail to factor long COVID in Shodai's lack of form, honestly. It's been almost 18 months for me and I've never been the same in many levels. It's perfectly valid that this is a bigger factor than any of those outlined above - and frankly, watching his bouts lately and knowing what to look for, it does make complete sense. He used to win long bouts all the time, and now he only really seems to win whenever he's not asked for sustained periods of focus and/or physical exertion.

A fair point. Let's hope if it is a factor its not too long.

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