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I don't know if it matters which recording or stream you watch, but did y'all hear Meisei and Oho's heads banging together over... and over... and over? 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

( @Reonito after Bruce comes back you can try and pound this point into his head again.)

It's a lost cause ;-) Some just like their narratives too much, even if they're spun out of pure chance.

Edited by Reonito

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3 hours ago, Yokozuna Hattorizakura said:

So it looks like they're just leaving the Kaigo v Kototaiki non bout as blank. I thought they did a double fusen in situations like this.

(This is definitely going to lead a problem in the db at some point, i just know it)


The Kyokai site now displays the bouts as fusenpai for both rikishi in that bout, and Kotonofuji-Obara in Sandanme.

FWIW I don't see why either situation should cause any database problems, if the bouts had been cancelled then they would be removed from the torikumi. As it is, there are already other examples of double fusenpai in the database, most recently in 1995, caused by Yakaze suddenly quitting after the torikumi had been drawn up, and Okinoishi being unwell.

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12 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

As it is, there are already other examples of double fusenpai in the database, most recently in 1995, caused by Yakaze suddenly quitting after the torikumi had been drawn up, and Okinoishi being unwell.

Now that the Kyokai lists it as a double fusen it shouldn't be an issue, but this would be the first time in the database being live that such a result has occurred, and thus it's reasonable to believe that the database might not be set up to automatically accept such a result but need to be fed it manually.  And before a result was entered for the match on the Kyoaki site, the database clearly wouldn't have had anything to work with in terms of automation.

Whether there was an issue with them before, they look to be fine now.

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By the way, the head-to-head counter considers the double fusen to be a win for the higher ranked rikishi (at least in these two cases).  It does show it as a minus as well like any fusen, but it's a little inaccurate in the base number.

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8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:
8 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

No talk about Tsurugisho being robbed?

Against Tamawashi? The mono-ii said that Tsurugisho was flying (therefore implicitly dead) by the time Tamawashi touched ground. It's close but I buy it.

Over the years since I began watching oozumo, there was a time when jumping at the bales while simultaneously forcing one's opponent down onto the ring was awarded with a white star, especially if the jumping wrestler did not cross below the plane of combat.  There seems to have been a conscious decision to reconsider the act of jumping as the start of a loss (implicit dead body, as Seiyashi points out).  

So "robbed" he was by the old (i.e., pre-Isegahama) standards.  But in today's oozumo world, not at all.

I miss those desperation jumps! (Beingthrowntomatoesat...)

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13 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I miss those desperation jumps!

First and foremost I miss the days when the rules were simple. Touch down first and you lost, and every mono-ii agreed. Now you have a hard time to explain these decisions to the people you tried to entice into sumo being the first professional sport using video replays.

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46 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

First and foremost I miss the days when the rules were simple. Touch down first and you lost, and every mono-ii agreed. Now you have a hard time to explain these decisions to the people you tried to entice into sumo being the first professional sport using video replays.

I can understand why there is confliction.  As an extreme example, suppose rikishi A pushes rikishi B completely off the dohyo with such force that B lands in the third row; A's effort makes him touch down with a hand while B is flying over the second row.  Who wins?

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1 minute ago, Yamanashi said:

I can understand why there is confliction.  As an extreme example, suppose rikishi A pushes rikishi B completely off the dohyo with such force that B lands in the third row; A's effort makes him touch down with a hand while B is flying over the second row.  Who wins?

Either rikishi B or torinaoshi.

Let's put it another way: Sure, Tsurugisho was completely airborne and on his way out with no way to recover, no doubt about that. Yet Tamawashi was clearly on his way down, and got there quicker. Why exactly does that make him a winner instead?

Everybody could have lived with a torinaoshi, which should be called way more often in cases like these IMO. But Tamawashi no kachi is simply wrong.

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6 hours ago, Rocks said:

Takakeisho doesn't have an off button.

Takakiesho shut it down pretty hard in March after getting his 8 with four days left.

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5 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Either rikishi B or torinaoshi.

Let's put it another way: Sure, Tsurugisho was completely airborne and on his way out with no way to recover, no doubt about that. Yet Tamawashi was clearly on his way down, and got there quicker. Why exactly does that make him a winner instead?

Everybody could have lived with a torinaoshi, which should be called way more often in cases like these IMO. But Tamawashi no kachi is simply wrong.

The rules of Sumo are so simple, but maybe not so in English.  The first way to win is either "to force your opponent out of the ring", or "to make your opponent step out of the ring."  The second is to touch the dohyo with any part of your body other than the soles of your feet.  If the first version is correct, A wins; if the second version is correct, B wins.  What is the Japanese version of the first rule?

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15 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

I can understand why there is confliction.  As an extreme example, suppose rikishi A pushes rikishi B completely off the dohyo with such force that B lands in the third row; A's effort makes him touch down with a hand while B is flying over the second row.  Who wins?

In the case you describe, I think that clearly the wrestler (A) executing the oshidashi or tsukidashi deserves the win, because there is a clear kimarite involved.

But in these close cases at the bales, there are usually two kimarite being executed simultaneously.  That is why the boys in the video review booth always have a kimarite handy for either gumbai or monoii decision.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

The rules of Sumo are so simple, but maybe not so in English.  The first way to win is either "to force your opponent out of the ring", or "to make your opponent step out of the ring."  The second is to touch the dohyo with any part of your body other than the soles of your feet.  If the first version is correct, A wins; if the second version is correct, B wins.  What is the Japanese version of the first rule?

So the current crop of shinpan are the first to enforce this rule after many years?

And here's a tricky question: what if Tamawashi had touched down *outside* the ring before Tsurugisho landed?

Edited by Jakusotsu

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34 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

So the current crop of shinpan are the first to enforce this rule after many years?

And here's a tricky question: what if Tamawashi had touched down *outside* the ring before Tsurugisho landed?

Well, I still don't know the Japanese definition of the first rule (I can't read Japanese).  In the case you suggest, it's still unclear, depending on the version of rule 1b that's correct.:-P

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1 hour ago, Reonito said:

Takakiesho shut it down pretty hard in March after getting his 8 with four days left.

That's because the injury was still effecting him. 

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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

The rules of Sumo are so simple, but maybe not so in English.  The first way to win is either "to force your opponent out of the ring", or "to make your opponent step out of the ring."  The second is to touch the dohyo with any part of your body other than the soles of your feet.  If the first version is correct, A wins; if the second version is correct, B wins.  What is the Japanese version of the first rule?

The rules are not about ways to win, but to lose.

The 2nd is such a way to lose, so make the first one that as well and it's simple like in Japanese: get outside of the dohyo, dohyo no soto ni deru.

 

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On 20/07/2022 at 12:31, Yamanashi said:

So, last week Shodai might not even be in San'yaku by Christmas; this week we're discussing Yusho equivalents for a Yokozuna run.  By the third week he'll either be TNG (the next GOAT) or TNMB (the next manzai boke).  My brain hurts.

Noting that Kaisei is likely headed to Makushita and perhaps retirement, I think Shodai is going to take his place as the on/off rikishi.  Kintamayama often spoke of "Kaisei A" and "Kaisei B."  I think Shodai A has now replaced the Shodai B that was present the first few days of this basho.

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Couple more screenshots I took a while back and forgot about.

DyOEDdm.jpg

I know this guy. I think he was in sumo once. What's his name, 魔餓鬼?

fy8CttN.jpg

Sumo cinderella working hard as always, while dreaming of attending the sumo ball.

ZeQP0ZU.jpg

n1I00Lg.jpg

Tsurugisho Momotaro T-posing to show off his new duds.

nFYfj2w.jpg

Three generations of sumo fans!

ih2NZ4w.jpg

Never quite got a good look at what Terunofuji's kesho mawashi actually says. Apparently it says "GOOD SPEED".

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, dada78641 said:

Never quite got a good look at what Terunofuji's kesho mawashi actually says. Apparently it says "GOOD SPEED".

For context.

Edited by Seiyashi

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11 hours ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

I don't know if it matters which recording or stream you watch, but did y'all hear Meisei and Oho's heads banging together over... and over... and over? 

Yep, I winced through the replay of that as I realised how many times they were actively headbutting each other. CTE here we come.

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8 minutes ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

Breaking! Three more stables out of the Nagoya basho because of positive Covid-19 infections

・Shibatayama ・Kataonami ・Isenoumi

Tamawashi and Nishikigi.  No one else down to the Makushita joi, AFAIK.  Who did I miss?

 

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Insane.

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