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53 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm rooting for Shōdai, for the same reason. (Dribbling...)

I'm with you there. These last few tournaments have made me a fan of his journey. The man has the ugliest tachi-ai of Makuuchi but is poised to be ranked 3rd or even 2nd highest on the banzuke come September. How? I don't know but I find myself rooting for his success.

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Followed by 15-0 in Aki, that's 25 straight wins, Terunofuji retires, he's top dog!

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SPECIAL NOTICE FROM THE KYOKAI: ALL BASELESS YOKOZUNA SPECULATION IS TO BE RESTRICTION TO INTERBASHO BOREDOM TIME AND STOP HAVING OF THE THROWING OF THE ZABUTON. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

11-4 has not historically meant anything for a Yokozuna run.  I recall someone saying long ago that Musashimaru's 11-4 Yusho did not make him tsunatori.  If he had gone 15-0 the next basho that might have been backtracked, but he didn't.  That was a time when 2 straight yusho were required though, and I think the point was that the 11-4 didn't really count for that.  There also were two good Yokozuna in their prime, and they didn't need another one who barely got there based on weak yusho.  I certainly imagine that the criteria will be looser than then, but I don't think 11-4 will count for anything at all even if it is the best in a given tournament, especially this one.

To be fair, Musashimaru wrestled in a far more restrictive era for Yokozuna runs. That 11-4 Y was actually part of a 11-4J 11-4 Y 12-3 12-3J string (Aki 1996-Haru 1997). I doubt the YDC would ignore that as per today. Nevertheless, ignoring similar strings was normal in the 1990s, see also Konishiki's even stronger 13-2Y 12-3 13-2Y (Kyushu 1991-Haru 1992), but also Musashimaru's own 13-2J 12-3 13-2Y (Aki 1997-Hatsu 1998).

A better comparison could be Kaio's 13-2Y 12-3J (Aki-Kyushu 2004). By that time the "equivalent" was being rehabilitated appositely for Kaio (it later became the "Kakuryu\Kisenosato Rule"). Yet again, a 12-3J was deemed a poor "yusho equivalent" and Kaio remained Ozeki. I read the Committee explicitly asked for at least a 13-2 and did not go back to their word.

This means that the golden result is no less than 26/30 especially in absence of a back-to-back yusho. Were this a stable rule, this means that a 11-4Y (or 11-4J) requires no less than a 15-0Y to make a valid run.

EDIT: I actually scrutinized all the Yokozuna promotion cases and historical trends appear to support a customary minimum of 26/30. Of course before the introduction of the Cup in 1909 Yokozuna promotions were very subjective, but early "back-to-back yusho rules" were de facto used to promote Hitachiyama (1903), Wakashima (1905), Tachiyama (1911), and Okido (1912). Most of their successors were promoted with a familiar Y-Y or J-Y performance, albeit not all.

Passing to the "modern era", very few Yokozuna were promoted with fewer than 26/30. Terukuni (1942) totaled 25. Chiyonoyama was a mess because hey just had to give him in 1951 the Yokozuna rank he actually earned with a customary double yusho in 1950 but was deemed "too young". Wakanohana I (1958) did 25. Kashiwado (1961) was another mess, probaby because they made his promotion coinciding with Taiho who technically also scored 25 but had two jun-yusho before that. The last Yokozuna to be promoted with 25 was Hokutoumi (1987), then sumo entered in a strict rules era altogether.

Back to the 11-4 discussion, there are very few cases in which a 11-4 was apparently brought in for a Yokozuna promotion. A fist case was with Yoshibayama (1954), who went 14-1Y 11-4 15-0Y. Another was Asashio III (1959) with 14-1Y 11-4J 13-2J. In both cases the middle 11-4 served to bridge their better results (insert sad Konishiki noises here). Chiyonofuji (1981) probably had his 11-4J not recognized, since his score was 11-4J 13-2J 14-1Y with a second-third score of 27/30.

Edited by Hankegami

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1 hour ago, lackmaker said:

There would be an exception made for a Shodai 11-4 miracle yusho surely.

A better miracle by including also two fusensho

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So, last week Shodai might not even be in San'yaku by Christmas; this week we're discussing Yusho equivalents for a Yokozuna run.  By the third week he'll either be TNG (the next GOAT) or TNMB (the next manzai boke).  My brain hurts.

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Hoshoryu needs power. He looked really good today, just those last few percent were missing. 

It's a shame so many guys are out with that shitty virus. There are many good fights and fun techniques, but in the end the talk will be a lot about Covid protocols and etiquettes. Hope we are done with infections for Nagoya. 

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Posted (edited)

Speculations aside, it's a joy to see Shodai wrestling with purpose and confidence. When he's good he's really good -- and ozeki for a reason. I hope he will not fall into his rut again, but that's more wishful thinking at most... 

Takakeisho imho has not been very good this basho and lucky he's got a kachikoshi already. He's far removed from the rikishi who blasted out Terunofuji in two pushes at senshuraku. This basho even Chiyotairyu has at times shown better Takakeisho style powerful oshi than Takakeisho himself. The power is not (yet?) there. 

As goes for Endo, he still has some technical wizardry in his pocket, but doesn't manage to show it too often. At best his throws are a beauty to behold. 

I really hope all the rikishi who have been forced into kyujo because of covid in their heya can have their ranks frozen. I don't really care what it does to the banzuke, but if the kyokai enforces this roundabout kyujo rule, they really shouldn't punish the rikishi who didn't have the chance to defend their records on the dohyo. It'll be lucky for Mitakeumi for sure, but it'll be some sort of positive karma for his recent poor luck with the injury. 

Edit: forgot about Hoshoryuu. He's been inching closer and closer in his bouts with Terunofuji. Next time he'll get there. 

Edited by dingo
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

Tomorrow will bring four in a row.

Even a fusensho bout needs some time and they have much to fill now. They also saved themselves the tedious work of rescheduling all lower divisions, which they did for Naruto-beya, though there was much more time to do so with the quite early announcement of the Corona infections.

The starting time will be delayed by 45min. on day 12, today had 25 fusensho of 143 bouts, 5 in juryo and above.

https://www.sanspo.com/article/20220721-72OPZBLVVJJ6JDMUEF4Y64XXZQ/2/

Sanyaku yobidashi Jiro of Kasugano-beya is also infected and kyujo since day 10, but he lives seperate from the heya, the rikishi don't have to go kyujo (yet) https://mainichi.jp/articles/20220719/k00/00m/050/356000c

The opposite goes for deputy chief shimpan Kumegawa of Sadogatake-beya, he can go on because he lives seperate, chief shimpan Sadogatake and shimpan Tamanoi are kyujo. I guess Fujishima is on schedule now again for the top three shifts.

Edited by Akinomaki
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Posted (edited)

I am kinda asking for a miracle here but no covid news today would be nice ! I mean, it came to the point where we could do a silly "Guess the heya" game where we would try to guess which stable will be announced out for the day...

 

Edited by Bakayokozuna

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4 hours ago, Bakayokozuna said:

I am kinda asking for a miracle here but no covid news today would be nice 

Sorry.

Because of a positive Covid-19 in the stable every rikishi in Asakayama beya out of the tournament starting today.

Sanyaku Gyoji Kimura Yodo is also out because of Covid.
 

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This is starting to turn into one of the few times I agree with Chris Sumo that this is a farcical basho

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11 minutes ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

1.jpg

 

 

Shimazuumi as well, from Hanaregoma-beya. 

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Chris has a video called "May the Farce be with You."  It was actually about the farcical bout between Terunofuji and Wakamotoharu, but could easily apply to this whole basho.

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7 hours ago, Bakayokozuna said:

I am kinda asking for a miracle here but no covid news today would be nice ! I mean, it came to the point where we could do a silly "Guess the heya" game where we would try to guess which stable will be announced out for the day...

 

 

3 hours ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

Sorry.

Because of a positive Covid-19 in the stable every rikishi in Asakayama beya out of the tournament starting today.

Sanyaku Gyoji Kimura Yodo is also out because of Covid.
 

Jinx

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On 15/07/2022 at 17:22, Akinomaki said:

Apparently it was decided on day 1 that Nishikifuji would replace Terutsuyoshi - he did it after the jobansen 序盤戦, the first 5 days. The shisho said he had always been keen to do it. http://www.sanspo.com/article/20220715-7T6DUCFWCVP67AD7G5HXFVFFZM/

The question remains if he'll do it only for the 5 days of the chuubansen 中盤戦 and then again a change for the shuubansen 終盤戦.

Nishikifuji is still tsuyu-harai, but Terutsuyoshi on day 9 replaced Midorifuji, the tachi-mochi of the zenhansen, for the kouhansen, the 2nd week.

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So basically the three of them did a switcheroo in different pairs.

NHK predicts that Takakeishō's day 14 opponent will be Wakatakakage.

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God, the bouts are really padded to hell and back. The lower rankers have as much commentary as the sanyaku would have.

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Terutsuyoshi should just say screw it and go for the ashitori every time.

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Strong, no-nonsense oshi attack from Takakeisho today. Haven't seen him look quite that dominant in a while

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1 minute ago, sumoforever said:

Strong, no-nonsense oshi attack from Takakeisho today. Haven't seen him look quite that dominant in a while

He's been dominant in his wins and getting stronger as the tourney goes on. Very much part of the yusho race this basho. 

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