Nagoya 2022

[Octofuji 327]

1 hour ago, Benihana said:

I searched only this sub-forum for titles with "spoilers" and 2020/07 with 1292 (52 pages) is the largest among them. You'd have to do a manual search fot more precise results.

Nagoya last year it seems with 56 pages (Hakuho's last active basho), going by sorting the Honbasho page by number of replies.

So a way to go yet, although if the basho is cancelled with Shodai at 7-7 then you never know 

[Reonito 1,335]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

Going by Jason's video. The earliest I would say you could suggest there could be a stoppage is 6:23. The point Chris indicates is 6:24. 6:25 Insouke indicates a stop, moves towards rikishi and by 6:26 has reached them and is waving frantically for stoppage. 2 seconds is hardly sufficient to warrant the wholesale overhaul of sumo procedures. 

I think the knot already looks like it's starting to get untied at 5:50, but I don't know how loose it needs to be before a mawashi matta is typically called. At 6:23/6:24 the strand comes out of the knot, and that's when Inosuke starts to act...maybe acting earlier would have avoided the whole thing.

[Rocks 1,807]

29 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I think the knot already looks like it's starting to get untied at 5:50, but I don't know how loose it needs to be before a mawashi matta is typically called. At 6:23/6:24 the strand comes out of the knot, and that's when Inosuke starts to act...maybe acting earlier would have avoided the whole thing.

I think typically they don't stop it until a part of the belt comes loose and hangs down. The looseness round the midsection isn't really relevant because as long as the knot holds the mawashi won't fall down, or get pulled off,  which is the only thing they are concerned with. 

[shumitto 418]

Am I the only one surprised by Nishikigi's latest surge ? It is rather common to see a veteran bounce back after a couple of basho in Juryo like Myogiryu did a few years ago, or maybe return after an extended stay in the lower ranks when a visible injury is the main culprit, but Nishikigi spent 9 consecutive basho in Juryo, dropping as low as J13 - and had a make-koshi there - before getting back to a single digit Maegashira rank. Kind of surprising. He's become the Matt Carpenter of Sumo.

 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Well, Kitanofuji's column in Chunichi says Inosuke wasn't decisive/authoritative enough in intervening. Wakamotoharu not noticing his call for the pause is his fault for not being, well, loud enough. 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

7 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The work of Inosuke to retie the mawashi of Wakamotoharu was done by Shodai

o

Usually there isn't also a mono-ii going on at the same time though (which the gyoji normally attends). Reminds me of when Yoshikaze once offered to help but was turned down. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Inside Sport Japan 760]

 

 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Just now, Inside Sport Japan said:

 

 

:facepalm: Shouldn't they just do another test and see how many infections turn up? This is going from bad to worse. 

[Katooshu 3,135]

Dang, another stable that's having a lot of success this basho too...

[Seiyashi 4,071]

2 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Dang, another stable that's having a lot of success this basho too...

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=202207&heya=18&shusshin=-1

Their sekitori are doing decently, yes. Lower divisions - two 2-2s and two 3-1s.

Last thing we need is for Isegahama to be yoinked. That'll really ruin this basho with three of their rikishi in the arasoi.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,071]

8 hours ago, Hankegami said:

8 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I have a pretty strong feeling after looking at the Japan covid data that the tournament is going to be cancelled in the next couple days, no Yusho or sansho will be awarded, and the next banzuke will be made based on results so far.  I can't imagine that it's not going to spread further than it has.

8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Is mulliganing the basho not an option at all? 

8 hours ago, Gurowake said:

It's an option, sure.  I don't think it's fair to people that had winning records though. 

By "mulliganing", do you mean pretend that Nagoya 2022 never occurred and pass directly to Aki? Was this the case, I agree with Gurowake it would be excessive. We are already on Day 8 and the tournament will likely go at least to Day 9. They could even treat it like a 10-day basho and give the usual awards anyway. Even the yusho in the unlikely event we will get a sole front runner on the last day (highly unlikely). Whelp, if they decide to end the basho beforehand (that is, while the last day is still going), they could even prepare a yusho playoff before closing for good.

I know it may sound a somewhat "absurd prediction" guess, but it could solve many things. Promotions and demotions, as already put up. Ozeki runs (Wakatakakage) and if they want to be nasty even demotions (Mitakeumi). Both fans and rikishi would have had the impression they spent their time for something.

Yūshō and ōzeki promotions aren't the most significant if you ask me. The one person who'd be exceedingly hard done by with a freeze is Kinbōzan, who has probably earned sekitori already. Considering Ishiura was obviously going to be demoted with a zenkyū, I don't know if the committee is prepared to swap Kinbōzan and Ishiura on the banzuke even during a freeze. It's tricky extending this to the rest of the banzuke because I don't get the impression toriteki absences are particularly well-explained, and it is a lot more work than usual to have to investigate reasons for absences.

The other option is to only move those who are already MK/KK on the full 15 day schedule, not a partial extrapolation, which means only those who have hit 8/4 wins or losses should be touched. If rankings are going to be redone, this is the only really fair way to do it IMO.

But we'll see how it goes. Hanaregoma out and no mention of basho cancellation as yet. Maybe, in typical fashion, they're just wishing they have enough time to end the basho before everyone catches it.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Rocks 1,807]

39 minutes ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

 

 

Thanks for the news. Time to end this farce. 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,245]

Easier said than done, with all the tickets sold.

Maybe inosuke is more suited to izakaya 

[robnplunder 974]

2 hours ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

 

 

... not surprising at all.  The latest C19 variant won't be denied.  

Shodai is now 4-4.  I guess I gave up on him too early (after day 5).   I think he may save his Ozeki rank yet.

[just_some_guy 256]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

The other option is to only move those who are already MK/KK on the full 15 day schedule, not a partial extrapolation, which means only those who have hit 8/4 wins or losses should be touched. If rankings are going to be redone, this is the only really fair way to do it IMO. 

This would be a hot mess.

Holding the COVID kyujos in place caused a bit of problems; can you imagine holding everyone who hadn't finalized an MK/KK?

If the basho gets cancelled, why not just move people based upon the records they compiled (discarding any days missed due to COVID)? Applying the standard (wins - losses = approximate rank movement) wouldn't require too much more creativity than a banzuke usually does. A bit, sure, but not too much.

The obvious exception would be Mitakeumi and any in-progress Ozeki runs. I haven't got any great ideas for that as it doesn't seem fair to punt him down to Sekiwake without a fair run at getting his 8 wins, nor to effectively halt any Ozeki runs in progress.

[Yamanashi 3,724]

Here's a crazy thought: if the basho stops, continue it in Tokyo in two months.  Start with the Dewanoumi rikishi and hold the bouts they were scheduled to have when they were pulled; then Naruto, Hanaregoma, ... then start the basho from the next day after they pull the plug.  That might work if they cancel in the next day or two.  Anyway, it isn't crazier than whatever they will come up with (except washing out the Nagoya records).

[Seiyashi 4,071]

1 hour ago, just_some_guy said:

as it doesn't seem fair to punt him down to Sekiwake without a fair run at getting his 8 wins, nor to effectively halt any Ozeki runs in progress.

If this isn't fair, then how is it also fair to demote someone on a 1-3, or to promote on a 3-1, when they could pull escapes or collapses? 

At least at the time I wrote it there weren't any KK sekitori nor will there be today IIRC, and there are never that many 4-0 in the toriteki ranks at this point in time. 8 per division, max, due to the elimination system of bouts there. Worst case scenario, put the KKs where they need to be, bump everyone down one rank, and do the reverse for the MKs. Freezing their rank was never absolute, but holding their relative banzuke position steady is the overriding principle. 

I should have qualified moving people with "significantly", though. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,071]

3 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Here's a crazy thought: if the basho stops, continue it in Tokyo in two months.  Start with the Dewanoumi rikishi and hold the bouts they were scheduled to have when they were pulled; then Naruto, Hanaregoma, ... then start the basho from the next day after they pull the plug.  That might work if they cancel in the next day or two.  Anyway, it isn't crazier than whatever they will come up with (except washing out the Nagoya records).

The shimpan can't restart a bout competently and you want them to restart a whole basho? 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

53 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Here's a crazy thought: if the basho stops, continue it in Tokyo in two months.  Start with the Dewanoumi rikishi and hold the bouts they were scheduled to have when they were pulled; then Naruto, Hanaregoma, ... then start the basho from the next day after they pull the plug.  That might work if they cancel in the next day or two.  Anyway, it isn't crazier than whatever they will come up with (except washing out the Nagoya records).

Not the craziest idea to have them do week two in a couple of weeks in Tokyo instead. Unprecedented of course, but logistically not complicated. No crowds, just finish the basho. I don’t know what value it would bring other than closure though, so I can’t see it happening. An alternative could be to reach an odd number of days, say 11, and then call it quits. That’s enough for everyone to have a KK or MK.

[I am the Yokozuna 186]

I personally thought that Inosuke did the right thing albeit a bit clumsy.  It was obvious that Terunofuji could not execute any attack using the belt despite it coming undone a bit by bit.  Much ado about nothing.  I always thought if some shenanigans ala deflategate happen in sumo where if someone knows that his opponent would use uwate technique then he might loosen it a bit before the fight.  Great effort by Wakamotoharu though, hope he could finish kachikoshi.   

I also think that the tournament should be concluded and the championship trophies distributed. 2/3 of it would have been completed and only a small fraction of all sumotoris are infected and gone kyujo. Do not, personally, see any reason why it should be abandoned at this point. For banzuke purposes, I would like to have the record prior going COVID kyujo considered, but knowing the Japanese bureaucratic mind, I am to be surprised once again with some new solution.  

[Jakusotsu 5,813]

49 minutes ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

I personally thought that Inosuke did the right thing albeit a bit clumsy.

He didn't. He pointed the gunbai to Wakamotoharu after stopping the bout.

[robnplunder 974]

3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Here's a crazy thought: if the basho stops, continue it in Tokyo in two months.  Start with the Dewanoumi rikishi and hold the bouts they were scheduled to have when they were pulled; then Naruto, Hanaregoma, ... then start the basho from the next day after they pull the plug.  That might work if they cancel in the next day or two.  Anyway, it isn't crazier than whatever they will come up with (except washing out the Nagoya records).

It is a crazy thought.  But this situation is all so crazy.  Almost 3 years into this virus, the sh** is still happening.  I sure hope things will be much better in 6 weeks.  

[rhyen 1,809]

Anyone noticed Daishomaru carrying Tsurugisho’s zabuton?

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

Shodai yusho?

[Benihana 1,901]

Healthy Ichinojo somehow reminds me of a big, deadly cat. Here's hoping he got his back problems finally and forever sorted out.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Benihana