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Posted (edited)

It's not unusual, the problem came in when the gyoji then pointed to Wakamotoharu as the winner.....the gyoji should've been firm and told them to go straight back to the position. Instead he floundered and went along with Waka getting the victory...

Edited by Katooshu
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Does anyone have a good understanding of when a gyoji should/ shouldn't adjust the mawashi, or indeed how much discretion they have to decide that?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Inosuke robbed Wakamotoharu, Terunofuji had enough time to recover and think of a counter. Inosuke stopped the bout while they were moving, a bigger miss than a sashichigae, IMO

I disagree - his arms go up while they were standing there, then Waka moved right after. Teru only went out because he stopped due to the gyoji's involvement. Waka hadn't won.....

Edited by Katooshu
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3 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Inosuke robbed Wakamotoharu, Terunofuji had enough time to recover and think of a counter. Inosuke stopped the bout while they were moving, a bigger miss than a sashichigae, IMO

that's my issue overall. He had way to much time to recover, and outmuscle Wakamotoharu

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In my 9 years of watching sumo, I've never see anything like this, not under these circumstances.  I think Wakamotoharu got robbed.

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Posted (edited)

Waka got time to recover himself and it would've been disgraceful to award him the victory on the initial force out - the ref clearly called time and Teru only stopped then. It was still very much up for grabs.

Edited by Katooshu
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2 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

I disagree - his arms go up while they were standing there, then Waka moved right after.

The NHK guys agreed with Mainoumi, who pointed out that they were moving

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, sumoforever said:

Does anyone have a good understanding of when a gyoji should/ shouldn't adjust the mawashi, or indeed how much discretion they have to decide that?

As far as I know - which is not much -, I always understood they MUST adjust the mawashi, otherwise the wrestler with a loosened mawashi loses by foul. I wouldn't be surprised they considered disqualifying Wakamotoharu. Anyway, putting them back to position felt really artificial. I don't understand why not to call a torinaoshi.

Edited by Hankegami

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2 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

In my 9 years of watching sumo, I've never see anything like this, not under these circumstances.  I think Wakamotoharu got robbed.

I think the gyoji didn´t as well. First he stopped the bout, but Wakamotoharu went on, which he (thought) obliged him to make a (useless) call. That´s where the chaos ensued, and the repositioning took way too long.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

As far as I know - which is not much -, I always understood they MUST adjust the mawashi, otherwise the wrestler with a loosened mawashi loses by foul. I wouldn't be surprised they considered disqualifying Wakamotoharu. Anyway, putting them back to position felt really artificial. I don't understand why not to call a torinaoushi.

They called a torinaoshi, at the last position, as always for a mawashi matta and also a mizuiri. A complete torinaoshi would have robbed Wakamotoharu of any advantage he still had.

The mawashi was not that loose, only if it falls off, a hansoku loss occurs

Edited by Akinomaki
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3 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

As far as I know - which is not much -, I always understood they MUST adjust the mawashi, otherwise the wrestler with a loosened mawashi loses by foul. I wouldn't be surprised they considered disqualifying Wakamotoharu. Anyway, putting them back to position felt really artificial. I don't understand why not to call a torinaoshi.

Nope, there has to be some "indecent exposure" involved for a DQ. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Godango said:

Well, that was a new one. Nice knowing you, Inosuke. 

Seppuku? Tanto Or Letter Opener?

Edited by rhyen

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Just now, rhyen said:

Seppuku? Or Letter?

That sword probably seems like a better option than the talking down to he is getting right now. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

The NHK guys agreed with Mainoumi, who pointed out that they were moving

Just watched again - they move a split second before he calls it. It was very close. But Teru was right in it, it's not as if he was already cooked when the ref stepped in. That only happened when he completely stopped due to the gyoji calling time.

I don't feel bad for Waka. He got a big rest too and much of his initial advantage stemmed IMO from that very loose mawashi. 

Edited by Katooshu
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said:

Completely the wrong stance to resume.... I have no words

You did have words actually! :-D

What was the right stance to resume?

Edited by Katooshu

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Posted (edited)

The way this basho is developing, all of its infamies (COVID kyujos, tate gyoji saschigai) will outlive the memory of whoever wins the basho.

I assume that it will get cancelled when we see the Fibonacci’s sequence explode and we only have 40+ heyas. (1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, …)

Edit: And GG to the long awaited Natsu Jungyo. Since most of them will be located near the greater Tokyo Metropolitan area (which is seeing doubling in weekly rolling figures, but not exponential yet). The governors will probably issue executive decrees to postpone/reschedule/cancel. 

Edited by rhyen

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5 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

You did have words actually! :-D

What was the right stance to resume?

For starters, looking at Abema's view of the situation you have to put waka's right foot ahead of his left - not behind it, as they did. This put him on a stance completely devoid of leverage on his uwate side and allows teru to easily toss him the other way. You're looking very overly defensive in this thread.

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What a weird moment and what a bad rollercoaster of emotions for Wakamotoharu! Terunofuji saw the gyoji and kinda stopped his effort so i wont call it a robbery but rather an extremely unlucky turn of events for Wakamotoharu. That was a great effort vs the yokozuna anyway !! The guy seems to get better and better every basho

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2 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Nope, there has to be some "indecent exposure" involved for a DQ. 

Which appears to me just as vague as "yusho or equivalent". Having your mawashi actively unfolding (notice that Shodai had to redo Wakamotoharu's mawashi knot completely) can be well called a wish to denude yourself. Granted, I am not saying they should have had disqualified Wakamotoharu. He clearly didn't hear Inosuke and I hope the shinpan themselves would call for a DQ only when the wrestler is willingly letting it unfolding.

Just to be clear, I fully agree with a call for a torinaoshi. I would just have preferred a full torinaoshi. As @Katooshu pointed out, Wakamotoharu was likely in a good position also because Terunofuji was having a hard time getting a leverage from his overly loosened and soon-to-be-unfolding mawashi. Also, Wakamotoharu actively pushed out Terunofuji by then and Inosuke even confirmed his win. Putting them back to position was totally odd and overzealous of the shinpan.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

For starters, looking at Abema's view of the situation you have to put waka's right foot ahead of his left - not behind it, as they did. This put him on a stance completely devoid of leverage on his uwate side and allows teru to easily toss him the other way. You're looking very overly defensive in this thread.

I'll have to check out a replay - it looked close to me albeit probably not a perfect match.

You might be reading into your own feelings too much if you think I'm overly defensive. It's just some discussion and naturally there will be opposing viewpoints.

Do you not think a very loose mawashi is an advantage by the way (re: your reaction to my post about that)? It makes a very big difference to the grip and leverage someone can get...

Edited by Katooshu

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It's definitely right to give a lot of credit to Wakamotoharu for his effort today. Prior to the mawashi incident, it was already shaping up to be the bout of the day. Defensively, he dug in really deep against Terunofuji, whose yotsu attacks were looking pretty strong today. Offensively, Wakamotoharu was giving Terunofuji a good match. Wakamotoharu looks set to be a sanyaku regular in the near future.

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