Nagoya 2022

[Seiyashi 4,071]

3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

That really only applies for things like getting hit with a baseball.  The ball flying at high speeds and in random directions is an inherent part of the game, and while they have nets in some places, they can't cover the entire field, so you need to pay attention if you're not behind one of those nets.  Throwing zabuton is not an inherent part of sumo.  Well, not really.

Depends on the lawyer arguing it, but given the history of zabuton throwing it's not impossible to argue it as part of sumo. The full umbra certainly applies to classic cases like being hit by flying rikishi especially if you are in the dohyo side seats, but there's definitely room for argument in the penumbra of zabuton throwing. 

PS: Are you also legally trained, by any chance? 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

11 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

PS: Are you also legally trained, by any chance? 

Why? Did you suspect Gurowake was trained illegally?

[Inside Sport Japan 760]

50 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

To be fair, ex tate yobidashi Hideo in his book also says it's dangerous, although I have no idea if he was just toeing the official line. So I don't know if it's the NSK trying to forestall lawsuits

Personal injury lawsuits aren't really a thing here.

It's 100% about the danger.

Zabuton aren't hard but they are heavy and flying through the air they contain more than enough force to knock a child or elderly person over. Virtually the entire first floor seating contains exposed metal piping. Definitely not a place you want to fall. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

Time for Kinbozan to order his new mawashi. Given his shikona I think gold would be a good choice.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

35 minutes ago, Inside Sport Japan said:

Definitely not a place you want to fall. 

Or to have your head banged against for a coup-contrecoup injury. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

Takanosho out. Has this only just been posted?

Oh wait, it's on the Rikishi status thread... apologies.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Tigerboy1966

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Down in jūryō:

Tochimaru has spirit but needs a more ruthless finishing streak. He had Chiyosakae off balance at least twice in the fight but didn't do much more than a step back and mild pull. Had he ramped up the pressure with a tsukiotoshi or hatakikomi he would have been the one walking away with the win.

Kaisei can't catch a break. Fighting possibly the only rikishi in jūryō who matches him in height, he's outclassed for most of the bout and his attempted sidestep into dashinage was too little too late.

Shimazuumi looking pretty sharp against Yago today, going straight wins since his opening two day losses. Might be someone we could see in makuuchi soon.

Ōshōma looks a lot better than his 4-3, to be honest. He strikes me as the most intelligent wrestler in jūryō, being able to read his opponents very well.

Kitanofuji not going to be happy with Kitanowaka today either.

[Kujo 116]

5 hours ago, Reonito said:

The next round of GTB will be interesting.

I'll start the banzuke conspiracy theories right now (I know, I know wrong thread, but I didn't see a "completely ridiculous predictions" for Aki or a Natsu promotion/demotion thread yet).  We'll have a Yokozuna/Ozeki, one Ozeki (West) and four Sekiwake (Mitakeumi, Shodai) + the normal sekiwake.
And my next GTB will be it's all time worse (if that's possible).  

Edited July 16, 2022 by Kujo

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Just now, Kujo said:

5 hours ago, Reonito said:

The next round of GTB will be interesting.

I'll start the banzuke conspiracy theories right now (I know, I know wrong thread, but I didn't see a "completely ridiculous predictions" for Aki or a Natsu promotion/demotion thread yet).
We'll have a Yokozuna/Ozeki, one Ozeki (West) and four Sekiwake (Mitakeumi, Shodai) + the normal sekiwake.
And my next GTB will be it's all time worse (if that's possible).  

I don't think it's that far fetched. I did consider 4 sekiwake not unlikely when responding to Reonito's post, although it depends on specific outcomes this basho.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

First surprise: Ōnoshō going for morozashi against Takarafuji.

Second surprise: he actually wins with it, in a very straightforward way.

Takarafuji looking like he'd rather be anywhere else this bahso.

[Kujo 116]

 

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I don't think it's that far fetched. I did consider 4 sekiwake not unlikely when responding to Reonito's post, although it depends on specific outcomes this basho.

Demoting Mitakeumi now would be pretty harsh. 

 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

2 minutes ago, Kujo said:

 

Demoting Mitakeumi now would be pretty harsh. 

 

Harsh, yes, but not impossible nor - considering his performance this basho - undeserved.

[rhyen 1,809]

7 hours ago, dada78641 said:

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby

Not the first time, or the second time.

 

[Akinomaki 39,802]

16 minutes ago, Kujo said:

Demoting Mitakeumi now would be pretty harsh.

NHK reported the top shimpan said they'll discuss and decide this after the basho. No precedent, but the old koushou system never gave a rank protection after a bout had happened, the Corona koushou so far followed the old proceedings.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Akinomaki

[Seiyashi 4,071]

No wonder Tochinoshin dealt relatively well with it this time!

Just looked at the arasoi - if I haven't read it wrongly, if Tobizaru loses and Ichinojō wins, he'll have opened up a 2-win lead before nakabi. I'm not sure how to perform the query but it feels like it's definitely a first for a hiramaku leader, and might even be an absolute first (maybe Asashōryū or Hakuhō did better?).

[Kujo 116]

7 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Harsh, yes, but not impossible nor - considering his performance this basho - undeserved.

I think that Mitakeumi being a relatively new ozeki might work in his favor (I agree on his recent performances not being ozeki worthy).

If it was Shodai there would be no doubt about who the next "new" sekiwake would be (and I like Shodai, at least I did when he fought like an ozeki).

[Seiyashi 4,071]

3 minutes ago, Kujo said:

I think that Mitakeumi being a relatively new ozeki might work in his favor (I agree on his recent performances not being ozeki worthy).

If it was Shodai there would be no doubt about who the next "new" sekiwake would be (and I like Shodai, at least I did when he fought like an ozeki).

To be honest, if Shōdai at least fought like he did against Daieishō most of the time, even if he had had the same results, he might be in for less flak.

[Hankegami 412]

15 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Harsh, yes, but not impossible nor - considering his performance this basho - undeserved.

Depends what the Committee considers "deserved". Everyone knows he was fighting the way is was fighting just because of his shoulder. Moreover, I was just thinking they could save him exactly to avoid a Banzuke mess. Aside from the falling Ozeki, Ichinojo is currently building up a very strong basho. What if he ends up with a 15-0 zensho yusho? Daiesho with a 13-2 Y at M1e was promoted only to Komusubi, so putting a 15-0 M2w Ichinojo also at Komusubi would be coherent yet a terrible precedent. The standard should be Sekiwake.

Now, what about the other Sekiwake? Wakatakakage is still on the run for Ozeki but he MUST win every bout now, so it's sketchy. Daieisho is still in the picture, and while Hoshoryu is doing not that well, Abi is more on the right path. In the worst-case scenario, they would have both Mitakeumi and Shodai down, Wakatakakage and Daieisho stay, and Ichinojo and Abi knocking at the door. Thinking about this, I am not surprised that @Akinomaki reported they are going to decide after the basho. They want to see what they get.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Hankegami

[Seiyashi 4,071]

12 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Aside from the falling Ozeki, Ichinojo is currently building up a very strong basho. What if he ends up with a 15-0 zensho yusho? Daiesho with a 13-2 Y at M1e was promoted only to Komusubi, so putting a 15-0 M2w Ichinojo also at Komusubi would be coherent yet a terrible precedent. The standard should be Sekiwake.

You've said it yourself. And while the banzuke is certainly up in the air at this point, it's hardly a "mess". Wakatakakage and Daieishō are decent chances to KK right now, so the sekiwake situation is clear cut - either falling ōzeki take the slot over (at least most) other deserving promotees or "force" extra slots. Neither of them are realistic options to make an ōzeki run by now so the less said about that the better.

On the flip side, Ichinojō's performance, while not out of character, is certainly once in a blue moon. Putting him only to komusubi would be consistent with the stingy promotion of Daieishō (which was a 13-2, so not a cheap yūshō on the scoreline only) and would prevent having an unprecedented 5 sekiwake on the same banzuke, plus Ichinojō has already reached that rank so he won't even be hard done by by it. I'll also believe the zenshō when I see it; he has not managed to go perfect before and while he's still the favourite to take the championship, I doubt it will be with a perfect record.

With the rest of the joi turning in middling results, I think the chances are still good that the banzuke won't be anywhere as tough to deal with as it was last basho. Might be some two-point losses for people who jump the wrong way regarding Mitakeumi, but if both sekiwake KK then it's actually pretty straightforward.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,071]

17 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

26 minutes ago, Kujo said:

Demoting Mitakeumi now would be pretty harsh.

NHK reported the top shimpan said they'll discuss and decide this after the basho. No precedence, but the old koushou system never gave a rank protection after a bout had happened, the Corona koushou so far followed the old proceedings.

So just to be absolutely clear, this is the first time that there's actually been a COVID-enforced kyūjō mid basho, right?

[Seiyashi 4,071]

18 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

19 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

20 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

- I can't rate Shimanoumi as a person and mentor, but I can definitely hope he's much better at it than he is on the dohyo. He's forgettable and frankly mediocre at the level he's been, even when he wins... his 'banzuke luck' is getting to Kimurayama levels, where it seems they're actively softening his falls so he builds up his basho numbers and that helps validate him as the shisho he will become.

Not that I am fan of his, but we need to keep in mind that he got married very recently, which can sometimes be a big distraction (I'm talking about you, Takakeisho) or at times a big support (think Okinoumi/Nishikigi, although I am sure someone will choose to debate that).  

Furthermore, is it just me, or does Shimanoumi appear to have lost weight?  We'll have to "wait" until September for the "weight" update!

Depends on whether the rikishi in question chooses to announce it? I don't know the formalities and traditions surrounding Japanese marriage in detail, but I remember Asashōryū's page saying that the had a relatively poor basho after his marriage as "the hectic social rounds that follow a Japanese wedding prevented him from doing any training" or words to that effect.

Certainly sounds like that happened in this case. And it might also have happened in Endō's case for one of his poor basho although we won't know which one since he got married on the QT.

Follow up on this: my Japanese listening comprehension is bad, but I believe I caught something to the following effect as commentary during the Aoiyama-Shimanoumi bout:

"Because of his marriage ceremonies, he couldn't do training, and it's too bad."

[rhyen 1,809]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

So just to be absolutely clear, this is the first time that there's actually been a COVID-enforced kyūjō mid basho, right?

Before the PCR test were standardized, Chiyomaru went kyujo mid basho for a fever. 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Just now, rhyen said:

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

So just to be absolutely clear, this is the first time that there's actually been a COVID-enforced kyūjō mid basho, right?

Before the PCR test were standardized, Chiyomaru went kyujo mid basho for a fever. 

Turned out to be cellulitis and he returned, IIRC? And he wasn't shown any banzuke mercy on that occasion, at least not that we can tell: he had 7-8 and stayed at the same rank.

Of course it's up for debate whether the COVID scare was what tilted it in his favour to keep him in his slot, or whether it was the minimal MK - or both.

[Akinomaki 39,802]

25 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

NHK reported the top shimpan said they'll discuss and decide this after the basho. No precedent, but the old koushou system never gave a rank protection after a bout had happened, the Corona koushou so far followed the old proceedings.

7 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

So just to be absolutely clear, this is the first time that there's actually been a COVID-enforced kyūjō mid basho, right?

Correct, especially for one not infected himself

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

11 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Follow up on this: my Japanese listening comprehension is bad, but I believe I caught something to the following effect as commentary during the Aoiyama-Shimanoumi bout:

"Because of his marriage ceremonies, he couldn't do training, and it's too bad."

Wasn't quite that. The commentator was just speculating that maybe due to being too busy getting married prior to the basho he didn't appear to be in as good condition as usual. 

Then the conversation continued with the announcer commenting that most Makuuchi rikishi these days are married and Kitanofuji responding that in his day almost none were, because they didn't want the public to say that they stopped winning because they got married, and also because they lived for the day drinking and cavorting without concern for the future, which Kitanofuji expressed regret about doing in his own life. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Kaninoyama