Benevolance

Haru 2022 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Rocks said:

It's the best record over 15 days. If an M7 has to face 6 sanyaku  let him face some in the first week the same as the Sekiwake and Komusubi.  Should lower ranked guys on a yusho run have to face some stiff competition to grab the yusho? Yes. Should it amount to a manner in which practically only the Yokozuna would ever have to face? Facing the very best by rank in the last 6 days. Heck no.

I can't let this one just slip into the depths of the thread and be forgotten. You sound like you would like it if we returned to the days of some dude strolling in from M22e or some other godforsaken rank and went 13-1 against his peers, only to face a 9-5 Sekiwake on the final day to seal his yusho. 

EDIT: I really shouldn't egg this on, especially not with a leading question.

Edited by Yarimotsu

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12 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said:

I can't let this one just slip into the depths of the thread and be forgotten. You sound like you would like it if we returned to the days of some dude strolling in from M22e or some other godforsaken rank and went 13-1 against his peers, only to face a 9-5 Sekiwake on the final day to seal his yusho. 

Can we really call that a better or fairer competition than what we got to see this time? 

When did this happen? The only thing even comparable is Sadanoyama 60 years ago. Are we still blaming Tokoshoryu for only facing one snayaku as if it's his fault? 3 of the 8 sanyaku left the first week. Another 3 were terrible having all gotten their MK by Day 13 or even sooner. The only sanyaku he didn't face and did manage 10 wins had lost 5 by Day 11. Is it any wonder he faced the guys with the best records instead? Is there such a crisis of non-joi or higher winning yusho these guys have to be rushed up by Day 10 to add legitimacy now? There has been all of 6 maegashira winning yusho in the past 10 years. The only one you can say was given a truly easy schedule was Kyokutenho and even he faced an Ozeki and Sekiwake his last 2 days and had to win a playoff. Is that better or fairer? No. But I don't think 1 example in 40 years warrants throwing 6 sanyaku at Takayasu because he won 9 matches.  Takayasu had already beat 3 guys ranked higher than him, barely yes but higher, by Day 9.  3 joi had 5 wins after Day 9 and even Tamawashi with only 4 had beaten  a K, a Y and an O. He wasn't terrible especially considering his schedule. But Takayasu is just too good already for them.  He needs to beat every sanyaku as an M7 save the one who dropped out and the other one that probably should have dropped out. Sorry, I realized I've beat this to death but I'm just not buying it. 

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7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Sorry, I realized I've beat this to death but I'm just not buying it. 

With respect that's totally cool, but can we please just let this die? I know it was dragged up again, but you're not going to change your mind, everyone else isn't going to change their mind, the continued conversation is pointless.

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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

In the past few years, a few M17s have taken the yusho.  If Takayasu was ranked at M17, I am sure he'd taken the yusho outright.  I am sure of it.   :-P

 

So it's not the fault of the torikumi schedulers that Takayasu didn't win the yusho. It's the fault of the banzuke makers...

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I still think it's Kotomitsuki's fault...

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Aren't the Ozeki and Yokozuna supposed to win every Yusho?

Isn't Ozumo all about one strong man, kind of a demi-god?

2 minutes ago, Naganoyama said:

So it's not the fault of the torikumi schedulers that Takayasu didn't win the yusho. It's the fault of the banzuke makers...

(I'm aware that this post was meant to be sarcastic)
It would be for both groups if the Maegashira would win the Yusho more often.
The Torikumimakers saw that Takayasu was too underranked so they gave him the barriers to avoid him to yusho. Tokushoryu? Well both groups underestimated him because he was a 1-in-20-years phenomenon.

And the available FIFA WC slots are HIGHLY unfair.

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14 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

I still think it's Kotomitsuki's fault...

I have to wonder what Hoshoryu and Abi must have been thinking when they faced Takayasu. 

Hoshoryu " Umm, I've a shin-sanyaku who just went 4-5 against 7 sanyaku and 2 joi. Why exactly am I facing the undefeated Yusho leader right now? is this going to happen every basho?  I'm going to start getting the scrubs like Meisei and Ura after this right?"

Torikumi makers " Umm, no. Just wait till you get a load of your Day 15 opponent."

Abi " Err, I have to beat the yusho leader on Day 15 for my KK when there are 2 guys who faced a similar schedule to me and have 2 more wins then I do? Seriously?"

Torikumi makers " Ichinojo  faced some scrubs in Ura and Mesiei. Kirbayama got beat to beat up on some lower rankers. You know, sub par guys."

Abi  "But  these sub par guys  got 9 wins this basho too. Plus one of them has been in the joi for the past 2 years and another is a former Ozeki"

Torikumi makers "Sorry, only so many sanyaku slots."

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Godango said:

With respect that's totally cool, but can we please just let this die? I know it was dragged up again, but you're not going to change your mind, everyone else isn't going to change their mind, the continued conversation is pointless.

+1.

On a totally different subject, I would like to plead to Waka!#@$!#@$ to change his shikona.  I (and many others I'd bet) cannot pronounce his current shikona.   It also takes forever to write the name and is even harder to spell accurately.   So for everyone's sanity, please get a different shikona (e.g, Wakawaka, Wakataka, Wawa, Wakitaki, Wadawada, Waaaaaaa....).   Is that too much to ask?   Many rikishi goes through multiple shikona changes. 

Edited by robnplunder

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, robnplunder said:

+1.

On a totally different subject, I would like to plead to Waka!#@$!#@$ to change his shikona.  I (and many others I'd bet) cannot pronounce his current shikona.   It also takes forever to write the name and is even harder to spell accurately.   So for everyone's sanity, please get a different shikona (e.g, Wakawaka, Wakataka, Wawa, Wakitaki, Wadawada, Waaaaaaa....).   Is that too much to ask?   Many rikishi goes through multiple shikona changes. 

You'll need another set of three brothers for his own brothers, then. The Waka part of the shikona is from his granddad, and the remaining part of his shikona forms a trio with his brothers. Pretty meaningful, so you'd need to get them all to change. Our luck that the most successful also has the most tongue-tying one, though.

Edited by Seiyashi

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So I guess we will only remember this basho as the one with the scheduling controversy?

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20 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

So I guess we will only remember this basho as the one with the scheduling controversy?

I think if this is a controversy then we've got a lot more controversial basho to come.

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3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

On a totally different subject, I would like to plead to Waka!#@$!#@$ to change his shikona.  I (and many others I'd bet) cannot pronounce his current shikona.   It also takes forever to write the name and is even harder to spell accurately.   So for everyone's sanity, please get a different shikona (e.g, Wakawaka, Wakataka, Wawa, Wakitaki, Wadawada, Waaaaaaa....).   Is that too much to ask?   Many rikishi goes through multiple shikona changes. 

I gotta say, if he ever looks like he might get the rope I really hope for this too :-D. It's not the most 'Yokozuna-like' shikona, but hey, cross that bridge when it comes!

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Just now, Godango said:

I gotta say, if he ever looks like he might get the rope I really hope for this too :-D. It's not the most 'Yokozuna-like' shikona, but hey, cross that bridge when it comes!

Off the top of my head, he would be the first yokozuna to have more than 5 syllables in his shikona. Maybe that's why. 

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What are you guys on about? Wakatakakage is easy to say. But then I used to get on a train at Nishinakajima-Minamigata station every day, so I got pretty used to wrapping my mouth around Japanese words pretty early.

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6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

What are you guys on about? Wakatakakage is easy to say. But then I used to get on a train at Nishinakajima-Minamigata station every day, so I got pretty used to wrapping my mouth around Japanese words pretty early.

Speaking for a small but proud minority here on the Forum, I'd like to point out that his name is ... difficult ... for producing haiku.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:
4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

What are you guys on about? Wakatakakage is easy to say. But then I used to get on a train at Nishinakajima-Minamigata station every day, so I got pretty used to wrapping my mouth around Japanese words pretty early.

Speaking for a small but proud minority here on the Forum, I'd like to point out that his name is ... difficult ... for producing haiku.

IMO, to the contrary, it makes it very easy to produce haiku with: his name can only go in one of two positions, so it crystallises the form really quickly. The haiku practically write themselves. I grant you variety is a different issue, though:

Takayasu choked.
Wakatakakage is
Our new first-time champ.

Shin-sekiwake?
Wakatakakage is
Very much unfazed.

Change of shikona?
Wakatakakage says,
Thanks, but no thank you.

Easier scheduling?
But Wakatakakage
fought higher rankers.

Bout controversy?
Wakatakakage does
not care, he has won.

Thanks for the reacts,
Wakatakakage is 
a haiku goldmine

EDIT - Or maybe not:

And now for something
completely different, Wa-
katakakage. 

Parable, Waka-
takakage's shikona
was inspired by.

Edited by Seiyashi
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5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

On a totally different subject, I would like to plead to Waka!#@$!#@$ to change his shikona.  I (and many others I'd bet) cannot pronounce his current shikona.   It also takes forever to write the name and is even harder to spell accurately.   So for everyone's sanity, please get a different shikona (e.g, Wakawaka, Wakataka, Wawa, Wakitaki, Wadawada, Waaaaaaa....).   Is that too much to ask?   Many rikishi goes through multiple shikona changes. 

Would be terrible for his marketing, he's got one of the most unique names in the sport. I'm certain he'd lose fans if he ever did this.

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11 hours ago, Godango said:

We need a "shifting goalposts" thread.

Excuse me but was Juptier in Cassiopeia at that time?

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Posted (edited)

He had plans to use the one of grandad - I'd guess on ozeki promotion

On 04/03/2017 at 17:03, Akinomaki said:
On 30/01/2017 at 18:30, Akinomaki said:

The students 2016 team champion Toyodai's captain Murata and vice-captain Onami upon entering ozumo had a press conference at the university today. Murata (181cm, 160kg) wants to do sumo like 2 years sempai Mitakeumi, Onami (now with 180cm, 115kg) yearns to become the next Ishiura - if he can with the shikona of grandfather Wakabayama.

Onami III starts at first as Wakatakakage (looks better in kanji: 若隆景) - the Waka from grandpa's Wakabayama, the rest from the name of the 3rd of the 3 sons of Mori Motonari (to whom he showed that 3 arrows won't break easily if bundled), Kobayakawa Takakage.  Arashio-oyakata gave him the shikona.

On 05/12/2020 at 14:47, Akinomaki said:

The other 2 of course also adjusted their names to that of the Mori brothers, Kikkawa Motoharu and Mōri Takamoto

Edited by Akinomaki
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9 hours ago, Godango said:

With respect that's totally cool, but can we please just let this die?

I'll add one more point that I think is pertinent, and then I'm done.

9 hours ago, Rocks said:

But I don't think 1 example in 40 years warrants throwing 6 sanyaku at Takayasu because he won 9 matches.

Remember that the schedule gets made one day at a time, and Day 11 schedule gets made before Day 10 bouts have taken place, etc. So nobody decided on Day 9, "that's it, Takayasu is facing san'yaku from here on out." Had he dropped another bout or two by Day 12, we would have been back to regularly scheduled programming with a round-robin among the top 5, all Ozeki pairings, etc. But once someone is in the yusho race late in the tournament, the schedulers will look for the toughest available opposition as long as they stay in the race.

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You know, it's almost as it there was a conspiracy to give Takayasu unfairly high ranked opponents! (Whistling...)

I'll get me coat...

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2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

side note: at a recent interview Wakamotoharu denied that he'd take that shikona, Wakatakakage may use it for ozeki promotion o

But why would he adopt a new-old shikona when he accomplished so much with his own?

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9 hours ago, robnplunder said:

On a totally different subject, I would like to plead to Waka!#@$!#@$ to change his shikona.  I (and many others I'd bet) cannot pronounce his current shikona.   It also takes forever to write the name and is even harder to spell accurately.   So for everyone's sanity, please get a different shikona (e.g, Wakawaka, Wakataka, Wawa, Wakitaki, Wadawada, Waaaaaaa....).   Is that too much to ask?   Many rikishi goes through multiple shikona changes. 

Wakatakatakatagake's shikona is, as you can see, not difficult at all to spell.

 

Joking aside, it's the most fun shikona to say out loud by a long shot and I hope he never changes it.

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1 hour ago, Reonito said:

I'll add one more point that I think is pertinent, and then I'm done.

Remember that the schedule gets made one day at a time, and Day 11 schedule gets made before Day 10 bouts have taken place, etc. So nobody decided on Day 9, "that's it, Takayasu is facing san'yaku from here on out." Had he dropped another bout or two by Day 12, we would have been back to regularly scheduled programming with a round-robin among the top 5, all Ozeki pairings, etc. But once someone is in the yusho race late in the tournament, the schedulers will look for the toughest available opposition as long as they stay in the race.

Thanks for reminding me. You are right. They didn't decide Takayasu would face sanyaku here on out on Day 9. Day 10's bouts were scheduled after Day 8. When he was only 8-0 and the highest ranked guy he beat was a 1-3 M5. Takayasu was obviously in form and 3 wins clear of any maegashira on Day 8. Terunofuji had dropped out 2 days prior and Shodai was 3-5 and headed for deep MKville probably not to face a few of the high rankers down the stretch.  He never did face Abi or Mitkeumi. Takaysu did.  They needed someone to pick up Terunofuji and Shodai's slack and drafted Takaysu to do it. He's an Ozeki right? Not 2 years out from it, 32 and just over an injury it took 1/2 a year to recover from,  Not an m7 having who faced nobody higher than a M5 yet.  

On what planet was Hoshuryu the toughest guy on Day 8?  Ichinojo and Kirbayama both had one more win than him on a similar schedule. If the toughest guy was the criteria why didn't he face  Mitakeumi or Takakeisho on Day 10? Instead they had a 3-6 Takarafuji and and 4-5 Hokutofuji. The same with Day 15. Why isn't Takaysu facing the highest ranking guy he hasn't faced with the best record? 

And Takaysu did drop a bout by Day 12. Remember that? He dropped 2 bay Day 15. He still got the Sekiwake who had won 24 the last 2 basho and was fighting for his KK.

People act like  facing Hoshoryu and Abi when they are desperate is some sort of cake walk or something. 

Why isn't a kadoban Shodai facing a Mitakeumi or Abi to get his KK? Takayasu has to face him because he's tied for the lead? That was a gift or something?

Well, Wakatakakage had to do it, what's the big deal. He's a the top ranked Sekiwake. That's his job. He's supposed to do that.

When the heck did it become an M7's job to do an Ozeki schedule just because he's leading a basho? Why does he still have to after being tied for the lead?

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22 minutes ago, just_some_guy said:

Wakatakatakatagake's shikona is, as you can see, not difficult at all to spell.

 

Joking aside, it's the most fun shikona to say out loud by a long shot and I hope he never changes it.

I think Raja Pradhan would agree ;)

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