Benevolance

Haru 2022 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)

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Wow, what a great senshuraku to end a brilliant basho. Congratulations to Wakatakakage on his hatsu yusho as a shin-sekiwake. 
Now, let's see if he can keep it up and climb even higher. I don't mind admitting I'd love to see it happen.

Commiserations to Takayasu. Can't be easy getting so close to the Cup...

Will Mitakeumi's and Kotonowaka's 11-4 scores count as JY when there are 12-3-Y and 12-3-D above them?

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Great skill at the edge by Wakatakakage. He will surely go on and get ōzeki promotion now. But oh, Takayasu. He fumbles the yusho chance again. It's never gonna happen now, is it. 

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6 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Great skill at the edge by Wakatakakage. He will surely go on and get ōzeki promotion now. But oh, Takayasu. He fumbles the yusho chance again. It's never gonna happen now, is it. 

 

2 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

image.png.010607fae450ce99f2bc0bd052927f80.png

 

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25 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:.

Will Mitakeumi's and Kotonowaka's 11-4 scores count as JY when there are 12-3-Y and 12-3-D above them?

No.

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And for something completely different:

I am glad for Tochinoshins kachikochi! He will stay a little bit longer in Makuuchi! 

(Onthebanzuke...)

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Will Mitakeumi's and Kotonowaka's 11-4 scores count as JY when there are 12-3-Y and 12-3-D above them?

Bronze has never been a precious metal.

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Will Mitakeumi's and Kotonowaka's 11-4 scores count as JY when there are 12-3-Y and 12-3-D above them?

No, the doten counts as the jun-yusho in these circumstances.

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Man, if someone would have told me that Shodai was going to finish with a better record than Takakeisho after days 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,and 12 I would have laughed in their face MERCILESSLY. I have been humbled. So much respect for Shodai. The man is truly an enigma 

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There was an unusual display of "wow"-ness, or even joy (?) from Mitakeumi at the moment when Shodai defeated Wakatakakage to enforce the kettei-sen. Can't remember seeing so much emotion by a non-involved rikishi before.

mitakeumi wows.jpg

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Randomitsuki said:

There was an unusual display of "wow"-ness, or even joy (?) from Mitakeumi at the moment when Shodai defeated Wakatakakage to enforce the kettei-sen. Can't remember seeing so much emotion by a non-involved rikishi before.

mitakeumi wows.jpg

I think he was happy because Wakatakakage didn't land on him and he could finally hit the showers...

Edited by Kintamayama
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3 hours ago, Rocks said:

And if he had been facing one of the joi doing well in his last 6 days as he should have he would be the yusho winner. There's no way he should have been facing a 7-7 Abi on Day 15. Maybe Daiesho or Ichinojo.  Even Tamwashi or Kirbayama.  Never Abi. Kotonowaka shouldn't have had Hoshuryu either. That only makes sense because they were literally fighting to see who would get the Komusubi slot. 

Takayasu has already had enough of an advantage getting to beat up on lower rankers in the first 9 days while WTK had to fight the top guys. Now you're complaining because Takayasu gets the highest ranked rikishi he hasn't fought yet on the last day? He had 3 chances to win and choked all three. Abi is the highest ranked opponent available and is guaranteed to be motivated for their match. What do you want, for the schedulers to give him a lower ranker who isn't motivated so Takayasu can win a yusho without earning it?

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5 minutes ago, maglor said:

while WTK had to fight the top guys.

You mean like Meisei and Ura? Their Sanyaku slates were pretty similar except that Wakatakakge got to face Takanosho and Takayasu had to face, well Wakatakakage. 

They both had to fight weaker opponents in the first third as part of the usual rotation, but they moved Takayasu up to face the sanyaku quite early. I think the schedules are pretty comparable. I'm not willing to throw words like `epic collapse' out there even though Takayasu lost three bouts in the last two days. He was facing the top ranked rikishi and two Sekiwake with a lot to fight for.

Last year, when he lost a two-win cushion fighting and losing to guys like Aoiyama, was an epic collapse. This was him just being the second best rikishi this basho.

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Posted (edited)

What a tournament. If anyone put actual money on Wakatakakage winning they must be extremely happy right now.

9-6 at M1 and 12-3Y at Sekiwake means he's on an Ozeki run right? In theory he'd need another 12 in May to seal the deal, but is there a chance they ask him for another good result because of inexperience at the upper levels? Counting this tournament and May, we will have only held a Sanyaku rank for 3 tournaments before potentially earning his Ozeki promotion, which feels like very little. I don't know what the historical precedents are, but could this be one of those "show us more" cases? (assuming he gets 11-12 wins)

Other than the unexpected winner, very happy that the other golden boy got his KK on the last day and we'll get to see him stay in Sanyaku. 

Edited by Leoben

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Good tournament! Having been able to catch all 15 days for the first time in years, it seemed like the patrons got their money's worth. Maybe it's absences due to injuries, but I'm not seeing a real, dominant, yokozuna-bound character in this group. Maybe that's a good thing. Parity at the upper ranks means the yusho is fair game for anyone on a streak. In my mind, it would be nice to see someone with a bit of character, a spark, ya know? Just IMHO. 

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Wow what an ending!! Gutted for Takayasu to lose so cruelly but I loved the skill from Wakatakakage to stay in at the edge when it seemed his knees must give way.

Off to explain to my neighbour what that "Yeeaaaaa...arggggggggh!" scream was all about.

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3 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

Wow what an ending!! Gutted for Takayasu to lose so cruelly but I loved the skill from Wakatakakage to stay in at the edge when it seemed his knees must give way.

Off to explain to my neighbour what that "Yeeaaaaa...arggggggggh!" scream was all about.

It was the kind of bout you'd expect for a playoff. Shame someone had to lose it, but happy for Waka...

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22 hours ago, Sakura said:

The one thing I don't like about Day 15 is that Takayasu's opponent will have a lot more motivation to win than Wakatakakage's.

You know that's the first thing that occured to me too when I saw the second matchup.

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45 minutes ago, Leoben said:

What a tournament. If anyone put actual money on Wakatakakage winning they must be extremely happy right now.

9-6 at M1 and 12-3Y at Sekiwake means he's on an Ozeki run right? In theory he'd need another 12 in May to seal the deal, but is there a chance they ask him for another good result because of inexperience at the upper levels? Counting this tournament and May, we will have only held a Sanyaku rank for 3 tournaments before potentially earning his Ozeki promotion, which feels like very little. I don't know what the historical precedents are, but could this be one of those "show us more" cases? (assuming he gets 11-12 wins)

Other than the unexpected winner, very happy that the other golden boy got his KK on the last day and we'll get to see him stay in Sanyaku. 

I expect a yusho or equivalent should do it.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Sakura said:

You mean like Meisei and Ura? Their Sanyaku slates were pretty similar except that Wakatakakge got to face Takanosho and Takayasu had to face, well Wakatakakage. 

They both had to fight weaker opponents in the first third as part of the usual rotation, but they moved Takayasu up to face the sanyaku quite early. I think the schedules are pretty comparable. I'm not willing to throw words like `epic collapse' out there even though Takayasu lost three bouts in the last two days. He was facing the top ranked rikishi and two Sekiwake with a lot to fight for.

Last year, when he lost a two-win cushion fighting and losing to guys like Aoiyama, was an epic collapse. This was him just being the second best rikishi this basho.

Firstly, WTK had to fight Daieisho, Ichinojo, Kiribayama, and Tamawashi, who I think we can all agree are much more difficult opposition than Okinoumi, Sadanoumi, Chiyoshoma, Shimanoumi, Wakamotoharu, and Aoiyama.

Secondly, while Ura and Takanosho may have gone 4-11, they did that while having to face the entire sanyaku and joi. If you put 5-10 Okinoumi, 5-10 Sadanoumi, 5-10 Chiyoshoma, or even 8-7 Shimanoumi(5 of his last 6 matches were against M13 and below) against the same opposition, I would be shocked if any of them got more than 2-3 wins.

Edited by maglor
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Now that hours have elapsed I am able to elaborate my thoughts of this basho.

All and all, it might as well be the best basho of the last years, with an excellent last day to wrap it all. Let me share some thoughts on the protagonists.

Wakatakakage deserves the yusho. He has been consistently improving and he seems that he will not stop at Sekiwake. I remember his first basho in Makuuchi (Nov 2019), when he went kyujo and went back to Juryo. Not even three years have passed and here he is, looking strong and with a yusho under his belt.

Takayasu. I wanted him to win, it saddens me to think that he will retire without a yusho. But looking at his basho, it simply wasn't good enough. His 9-0 was cemented against low ranking rikishi and as soon as he faced stronger opposition he just crumbled (as he always does).

Shodai. After six days he was facing the worst kadoban performance in history and he managed to recover himself to get his kachikoshi. Moreover, he was a factor in the deciding moments of the basho. I am not a psycologist, but it seems that Shodai has the imposter syndrome: he just don't believe he is an Ozeki and thus he doesn't perform accordingly.

Hoshoryu. An 8-7 at Komusubi with some excellent victories. He has plenty of room to improve. If he works on his consistency, he can easily be a sanyaku mainstay for years to come.

Takakeisho. It is hard to believe that there was a time when he was a Yokozuna prospect. Now he is a one-dimensional Ozeki with huge problems when his opponent is too close, when he is grabbed or when the match lasts more than five seconds. I get anxious when I see him panting after a match, even Ichinojo seems healthier.

Tomokaze. Do you remember? He was injured the very same basho when Wakatakakage debuted in Makuuchi. He started this basho in Ms8 and posted a 3-4 score, a stark reminder of how cruel sumo can be.

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Just echoing all the comments here, what an ending to an already amazing basho! Would've wanted both Takayasu and Wakatakakage to win the yusho but unfortunately there can be only one (ahem). Poor Takayasu looked like he's going to cry right there on the dohyo. Hope he'll muster the strength to challenge the yusho once again. He certainly deserves it. 

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3 minutes ago, Kotomiyama said:

Takakeisho. It is hard to believe that there was a time when he was a Yokozuna prospect. Now he is a one-dimensional Ozeki with huge problems when his opponent is too close, when he is grabbed or when the match lasts more than five seconds.

He was only a Yokozuna prospect in terms of his results getting close to that point.  I think most observers who looked at the actual sumo would say exactly the same things in terms of why he probably wasn't going to be able to put together the results needed.

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Posted (edited)

I haven't been watching too much lately. In any kind of combat sports like this, there is usually a change of the guard every generation and we are currently in that. I didn't get to see the last change of the guard, but it takes a while to get people established. I think Mitakeumi may be able to become a Yokozuna, though I really question if he could while Hakuho was still around.

There's a real murderer's row of guys coming in from Makushita soon. Makuuchi better be prepared. Shishi, Hokuseiho and Kinbozan are all 190+ cm and they are coming.

I really feel bad for Takayasu. Quite possibly one of the last chances he realistically had to get a title and he loses it twice.

Edited by rzombie1988

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I am probably an outsider here, but watching for the first time a play-off between two senshuraku losers felt a bit anticlimactic. I was rooting for the 32 year-old and fading, never gonna win it Takayasu, but in hindsight I wish Wakakakakkakakaatagegege had just crushed my favorite Shodai to win in the regular time, so to speak.

Apart from the unexpected winner,  Kotonowaka's performance was another clear highlight of the basho. Given his track record, good results are much more likely to be the norm than an exception for him. 

Another rikishi that really delivered was Kitanowaka in lower Juryo. He is nimble, strong, has good technique. I hope to see him in Makuuchi soon. 

Kotoshoho is has finally managed a Makuuchi kachi-koshi, but I can't say I am totally convinced. He had a deadly combination of speed  coupled with precise moves I don't see anymore. I am also worried about Meisei, but I would like to see more before drawing any conclusions.

Okinoumi has been having some energy issues. After the first week, he tends to look spent. This time he was spent from day 1. I guess that is it for him.

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