Benevolance

Haru 2022 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)

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1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Incidentally, Kotonowaka feels much younger than Takakeisho to me for some reason, but they're only a year apart and were teammates in high school.

Kotonowaka took way longer to come up the ranks than Takakeishō, spending 4 years as a toriteki compared to the latter's 2. Takakeishō spent the difference getting promoted to ōzeki, so by the time Kotonowaka cracked the top division Takakeishō had already been ōzeki for a year.

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1 hour ago, dingo said:

I think "that move" referred to Kotonowaka's sidestep at the tachiai. At least that's how I understood it. 

That is certainly possible, since henka(s) are generally frowned upon.  But henka(s) are still a common enough occurrence, and if you are an elite sumo wrestler, you are expected to be able to see them coming and guard against them.

But take Hakuho's reign as Yokozuna.  Hakuho was free to dish out harite, but Heaven forbid that a junior wrestler would attempt a harite on him (i.e., a Yokozuna).  That leads me to the conclusion that there is a kind of "Not the face" unspoken guideline when it comes to what you can or cannot do against a Yokozuna, or in this case an Ozeki.  It may boil down to the perennial need to show respect within traditional Japanese society.

At least that's how I see things.  But I will admit that it might not have been the case here.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

That is certainly possible, since henka(s) are generally frowned upon.  But henka(s) are still a common enough occurrence, and if you are an elite sumo wrestler, you are expected to be able to see them coming and guard against them.

But take Hakuho's reign as Yokozuna.  Hakuho was free to dish out harite, but Heaven forbid that a junior wrestler would attempt a harite on him (i.e., a Yokozuna).  That leads me to the conclusion that there is a kind of "Not the face" unspoken guideline when it comes to what you can or cannot do against a Yokozuna, or in this case an Ozeki.  It may boil down to the perennial need to show respect within traditional Japanese society.

At least that's how I see things.  But I will admit that it might not have been the case here.

I agree respect is a thing, but weren't Kitanofuji and Hakkaku/Shibatayama/one of the riji at one point essentially saying to younger wrestlers that "if the yokozuna can do it so can you [back to him]"? (Of course, whether they had the necessary reflexes to actually do it was a different matter altogether, and also possible that the above statement was an imprimatur rather than a restatement of the status quo.)

Considering the training from hell Hakuhō gave Asanoyama during the latter's ascent, might have been more a "don't piss the don off" thing.

Edited by Seiyashi

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10 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Shodai is in the black for the first time this basho. 

They figure he will do a better job as a judge?

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2 hours ago, kumoryu said:

Is there really such a thing as a "ginboshi"?

I may be completely wrong here, but in my history of watching sumo on NHK and Sumo Digest and other Japanese TV I don't think I ever heard anyone talk about "ginboshi". Is it just a thing that gaijin sumo-fans have come up with?

Not intending to be antagonistic here, just curious. 

I am also a bit confused.  kinboshi - gold start in Japanese - is what I though was said of defeating a Yokozuna.  ginboshi might be read as silver star.  But I really don't know what I'm talking about :-)

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Millwood said:

I am also a bit confused.  kinboshi - gold start in Japanese - is what I though was said of defeating a Yokozuna.  ginboshi might be read as silver star.  But I really don't know what I'm talking about :-)

By analogy a silver star is awarded - by pundits and the press only - for defeating an ōzeki, one rank below a yokozuna which would get you a gold star. 

It doesn't help that gold and silver are pronounced in the compounds as kin- and gin- respectively, so if you miss the dakuten in the kana version it can be easy to get mixed up. The kanji version is more distinct. 

Edited by Seiyashi

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So, Ounoshou is looking to pick up his third douboshi this basho against Hoshoryu, after beating Abi and Takanosho.  Congrats!

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9 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

So, Ounoshou is looking to pick up his third douboshi this basho against Hoshoryu, after beating Abi and Takanosho.  Congrats!

That's Houshouryuu to youuuuuu... (Laughing...)

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I'm glad that Tochinoshin got his KK today. The last guy I remember from the first Grand Sumo Highlights I watched in July '09 who is still active.

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3 hours ago, dingo said:

I think "that move" referred to Kotonowaka's sidestep at the tachiai. At least that's how I understood it. 

Indeed, and to the accompanying harite that fell short, but was attempted. No respect felt.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I agree respect is a thing, but weren't Kitanofuji and Hakkaku/Shibatayama/one of the riji at one point essentially saying to younger wrestlers that "if the yokozuna can do it so can you [back to him]"? (Of course, whether they had the necessary reflexes to actually do it was a different matter altogether, and also possible that the above statement was an imprimatur rather than a restatement of the status quo.)

Considering the training from hell Hakuhō gave Asanoyama during the latter's ascent, might have been more a "don't piss the don off" thing.

Thank you for enlightening me on the Rijikai's policy of anything goes.  Still, it was easy for them to green light slapping Yokozuna(s) in the face, but they were never on the receiving end of Hakuho's wrath!

I was only trying to make sense of Ross Mihara's comment, and I don't see henka(s), especially failed ones, as a cause for anger.  Plenty of wrestlers get sucker henka-ed, and manage to control their anger...

But I bow to the view of the Elders on this Forum.

Edited by Amamaniac

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8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Combining the kinboshi and ginboshi records might not be possible on the bout query interface alone, but you could run two searches then eyeball the top results.

Why not?

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9 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Why not?

Holy mackerel, 56 for Aminishiki?! That exceeded my expectations by far.

(...even though one of them was a fusensho...)

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6 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Holy mackerel, 56 for Aminishiki?! That exceeded my expectations by far.

(...even though one of them was a fusensho...)

47-83 against ozeki as a maegashira.

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Abi has literally taken a step backwards (many of them) this basho. 

Part of it is facing a stronger crop of opponents, but it seems like he went away from focusing purely on his form and, perhaps tasting an Ozeki run within his sights, began focusing too much on winning instead of "doing his own sumo." 

Nonetheless, though his performance now pales in comparison to fellow shin-Sekiwake WTK, he's still in a position to grab a kachikoshi as a new Sekiwake with a couple more wins, and while he'll have to wait at least another basho for any hopes at beginning an Ozeki run, a winning record, if he can manage it, is nothing to be ashamed of. 

 

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Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, but just when I thought Shikimori Inosuke could get no worse, today he fumbled with Mitakeumi's stack of prize envelopes.  His shortcomings are like a gift that keeps on giving.  When will the Association say, "Enough is enough"?  Tanto or no tanto, being a gyoji seems to have pretty good job security.

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8 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Incidentally, Kotonowaka feels much younger than Takakeisho to me for some reason, but they're only a year apart and were teammates in high school.

It's the babyface :-P

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Regarding whether Takakeisho was angry or not when he banged his fist into the wall, he was definitely angry.  See 16:10 on Kinta's video for day 11.  http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/41618-videos-haru-basho-2022-days-1-11/?page=2

The announcer said it was the harite that did it.  (Scroll down to the video for Day 11).

 

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Links to NHK videos of Yokozuna and all Ozeki matches (with a bit more of the pre-match stuff than before), photos from nikkansports, results, match articles from Kyodo News, Tachiai.org, and nikkan sports, Kimarite and time statistics, Top rank performance, maegashira v san-yaku, and more. Nice Mainichi Shimbun Photo Feature today--23 photos.

I have added a "race" by Day table for the top contenders as a way to look at the whole of the Yusho race.

 

Enjoy

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Posted (edited)

Chiyonokuni was super chuffed to win after coming back from kyujo with his shoulder covered in tape. He avoids makekoshi with that to go 5-3-4.

Kagayaki also fends off the makekoshi for another day, snapping a six-bout losing streak right on time. 5-7 with no margin for error over the next three days as he's (almost) right at the bottom of division.

Tochinoshin's outside shot at the yusho comes to an end. He had to win out to finish up on 12-3 and hope that was enough, but he falls to 8-4. 

Edited by Eikokurai

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Wakamotoharu has confounded my expectations. I thought his promotion would result in a classic "cup of coffee" stay in makuuchi but that's two kks now and he looks like he's going to stick around for afternoon tea.

Meisei has been painful to watch this time. He doesn't seem to have any strappings or bandages but something must be very wrong.

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Just now, Tigerboy1966 said:

Wakamotoharu has confounded my expectations. I thought his promotion would result in a classic "cup of coffee" stay in makuuchi but that's two kks now and he looks like he's going to stick around for afternoon tea.

He and his stablemate brother to one day meet in a playoff for a yusho? That'd be fun.

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Posted (edited)

Decent effort from Kotonowaka there, but Wakatakakage marches on. 11-1 and for now at least, sole leader. Pressure back on Takayasu.

Koto now needs to win the next three days and hope other results go his way to get a 12-3 yusho, but 10-11 wins would be a great tournament for him wherever he finishes in the final order. Shodai tomorrow. Mitakeumi for WTK.

Edited by Eikokurai

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Really enjoying watching the makuuchi Onami brothers show some excellent sumo this basho. Great win by Wakatakakage over Kotonowaka, digging in deep defensively before securing the win. Another good win by Wakamotoharu, strong yorikiri against Endo who is performing well this basho.  The brothers have great yotsu technique and some sturdy defence. Good things happening at Arashio beya right now.

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