Haru 2022 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Wakatakakage also stays in the chasing group and looks knackered as a result. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Takakeisho falls but Shodai resists and turns the tables on Hoshoryu. Hope he can make it to 8!

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

Takakeisho seems destined to lose any bout that goes longer than 10 seconds. 

[Amamaniac 2,078]

50 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Takakeisho seems destined to lose any bout that goes longer than 10 seconds. 

He also seems destined to lose a number of bouts that last less than 10 seconds!  

Joking aside, I think he is facing a crisis.  He seems to be at a weak place physically, mentally, and ... technically!  Colour me worried.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

5 hours ago, Fujisan said:

I talk to myself all day about everything,I'm currently debating with myself whether I'm mad or just lonely.

What's been happening since the pandemic hit is enough to drive anyone mad.  I take inspiration from how the NSK has forged ahead, defying the odds and keeping this precious tradition we love alive.  It's that kind of human spirit that gives me hope for the future.

As for the latter issue, there are plenty of people on this Forum that appreciate you, whether you realise it or not.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Takakeisho seems destined to lose any bout that goes longer than 10 seconds. 

He also seems destined to lose a number of bouts that last less than 10 seconds!  

Joking aside, I think he is facing a crisis.  He seems to be at a weak place physically, mentally, and ... technically!  Colour me worried.

For an ōzeki allegedly on kadoban, Takakeishō looks fairly alright, actually. Today's bout against Endō is a bit more of a mystery because Takakeishō had no issue seriously unbalancing opponents with that double tsuppari technique, but then again it's Endō - he blows hot and cold, and the bout was gone when Takakeishō ran out of steam and allowed Endō to clinch up. Not an uncharacteristic loss and not one that heralds trouble, I should think (cf his oshidashi loss to Kiribayama a few basho ago, which was uncharacteristic for both rikishi).

Shōdai's win over Hōshōryū is more interesting, although that honestly can be put down more to Hōshōryū not finishing the job cleanly and attempting to try Plan B and C. He had Shōdai on the bales and could have kept up the pressure for an oshitaoshi, but tried to pivot for a throw and released the pressure, allowing Shōdai back into the bout.

Takayasu keeps the dream alive, although Josh on Tachiai did an excellent summary of past yusho runs by Takayasu that ended abortively. An excellent read and I commend it to anyone who would otherwise get hyped over a Takayasu yusho at this early (yes early) stage: the guy just cannot finish, unfortunately.

Down in jūryō, Enhō's bout against Ryūden looked like the little train that could, handing Ryūden his first loss and allowing Kitanowaka to catch up. Quite an interesting bout with feints, but what is impressive and noticeable this basho is Enhō's ability to generate forward pressure, especially against larger opponents. Added to his base of yotsu techniques, he seems to be able to keep opponents on the defensive against a potential loss by oshidashi, only to convert that pressure into a position for a throw. Raihō did something similar against Ryūki yesterday down in sandanme. It really does feel like Magaki has been doing some serious work training his deshi now that his career is no longer at an inflection point, and is doing his darndest to preserve yotsu expertise amongst Japanese rikishi.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Seiyashi

[RabidJohn 1,721]

I have to admit I suspected I was 'lighting a blue touchpaper' when I mentioned the U, so mods please feel free to split it all off.
I listened real close to the pronunciation of Ko(u)tokuzan today. The difference is all but imperceptable to my ear...

---

Kotoeko is another of those undersized rikishi who outperforms my expectations. When he's on form, as he has been this time, he's great to watch.

What was Abi thinking of going for a nodowa against Takarafuji?

My bout of the day has to be Wakatakakage vs Ichinojo. I loved how he was able to make that awesome power move after being subjected to the Leaning Tower of Mongolian for a minute or so.
He reminded me of Chiyonofuji, and not for the first time. 

I knew Mitakeumi had his shin-ozeki KK in the bag as soon as I realised I hadn't yet seen Tamawashi on the dohyo. 
At 37, I doubt Tamawashi will be around long enough to get a H2H as bad as Kotoshogiku's vs Hakuho, but still...

[Jakusotsu 5,873]

9 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Takayasu keeps the dream alive, although Josh on Tachiai did an excellent summary of past yusho runs by Takayasu that ended abortively.

Didn't read it, but you also have to keep in mind that Takayasu is already 1.5 years older now than his buddy Kisenosato was when he finally got over the mental hump.

Right now, it's either Mitakeumi (boring) or Kotonowaka (exciting) for me. Oh, and by numbers alone, Shodai is still in the yusho race.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

24 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Right now, it's either Mitakeumi (boring) or Kotonowaka (exciting) for me. Oh, and by numbers alone, Shodai is still in the yusho race.

If nothing else, Shōdai being still technically in the race hopefully means he'll not be fed gimmes leading into nakabi. It would really feel like a cheap shot if he were allowed to clear kadoban by being effectively given cans to fight. Problem is if he's going to be called on to deal with the hiramaku upstarts, which would put two storylines against each other - but that's precisely the kind of logic that the NSK loves to invoke in setting up those bouts.

Mitakeumi winning is pretty decent, actually, because his yūshō as an ōzeki outright forces the discussion of a rope run. Fair play to the man, he's been fighting at a higher level and more consistently than he's arguably ever been in his career, and if he can channel that momentum into a serious bid for yokozuna, that will seriously spice up Natsu before it's even begun. Kotonowaka won't need a yūshō to be promoted up the banzuke, so as far as excitement goes Mitakeumi winning actually writes a bigger storyline.

All the more so now that age and time have caught up with Terunofuji - I don't expect a retirement to be imminent, but we would be lucky to see full 2021 Terunofuji again in terms of that kind of sustained dominance. I wouldn't be surprised if this bashō marks the beginning of the end for him in a pattern of withdrawal, some bashō with a good result, a yūshō once in a while, and then finally retirement when he hits his 10. Would be nice to have some attempted tsunatori runs before Terunofuji retires for good.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,072]

35 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I have to admit I suspected I was 'lighting a blue touchpaper' when I mentioned the U, so mods please feel free to split it all off.
I listened real close to the pronunciation of Ko(u)tokuzan today. The difference is all but imperceptable to my ear...

I have you to thank for motivating the search for a workaround, though - and it was found! So all's good in my book.

Listen to Kōtokuzan and the pronunciation of a Sadogatake shikona next to each other - e.g. go to one of the digests with JP commentary and toggle between Kōtokuzan and Kotoekō's bouts. At full spoken speed you will not hear too much of a difference in isolation, but it is fairly noticeable if heard one after another.

There's also Chris' vids where he's usually quite scrupulous about elongating the vowel sounds, but I'd bet a hat eating session Kintamayama is going to come in and say that no one in Japanese actually speaks like that except to kids, for emphasis, or to gaijin.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Jakusotsu 5,873]

20 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I'd bet a hat eating session Kintamayama is going to come in and say that no one in Japanese actually speaks like that except to kids, for emphasis, or to gaijin.

It's not a hat but a steak around here.

[Rocks 1,807]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Takayasu keeps the dream alive, although Josh on Tachiai did an excellent summary of past yusho runs by Takayasu that ended abortively. An excellent read and I commend it to anyone who would otherwise get hyped over a Takayasu yusho at this early (yes early) stage: the guy just cannot finish, unfortunately.

Normally I don't like to comment on a guy on a run to prevent jinxing him but I don't think anyone can jinx Takayasu but himself. His problems are mental.  That being said and while I agree Takaysu is not a good finisher I don't think you can compare this run to prior ones, especially when he was Ozeki. The only legitimate run he's made since dropping from Ozeki is  March last year and in that I think his fade was predicated on the knowledge that it was likely he would have to beat Terunufuji a second time in a playoff to win the yusho after losing to Wakatakakage. Prior to that run Takaysu had to have it in his mind they were guys at the top he just couldn't beat in the Mongolian Yokozuna. There is no one left standing like that AND he's one clear of the field. The only guy I would say that has a real shot of winning more than him is Mitakeumi and Takaysu has a very good record against him when healthy. Takayasu still needs to do his job but outside of say Hoshoyu and Wakatakakage who can give him problems he can do that easily. The rest of sanyaku is looking tired. I don't think he'll face Shodai and I think Takakeisho may have his 8 prior to his match at which point I don't expect him to put up too tough a fight. 

The other key indicator in Takaysu's favor is the fact he held out and beat Aoiyama. Takaysu's fades start him him losing to someone he has no business losing to at the time, like Wakatakakage last March. Had he lost to Aoiyama I think he would have faded precipitously. If he beats Hoshoryu then it's down to just him and Mitakeumi. I think if Wakatakakage continues to win the pressure will get to Wakaktakakage more than Takayasu. I don't consider Kotonowaka a factor. 

I don't guarantee he'll win, this is Takaysu after all, but I would be very surprised to see him lose 2 in a row and fade quickly barring injury. 

[maglor 122]

Takayasu opponents so far:

M5

M6

M6 Kotonowaka

M7

M8

M8

M9

M10

M10

 

Given that he is already facing a Komusubi on Day 10, I expect he will likely have to face both Sekiwake, possibly two Ozeki, and another top ranker(perhaps Daieisho, Ichinojo, Kiribayama, or Endo). People keep talking about the mental aspect, but he will also have be fighting a whole new caliber of opponents.

[RabidJohn 1,721]

2 hours ago, Rocks said:

I think if Wakatakakage continues to win the pressure will get to Wakaktakakage more than Takayasu. I don't consider Kotonowaka a factor. 

I'm open-minded about those 2. Mitakeumi and Takayasu both have yusho race records, but Wakatakakage and Kotonowaka are much newer to the prospect of going into the last couple of days with an actual chance, so I don't know how they'll react. 

I have a feeling this Kotonowaka may be better than his dad was, though whether he can turn out to be as good as his granddad remains to be seen. I'm not counting him out of it until he is.

[Chiyotasuke 274]

Although he lost today, it's nice to see that Hoshoryu became one of 12 men who beat an ozeki in their first 4 meetings while being ranked at M-S

(not Hakuho who had had 2 wins over Sekiwake Tochiazuma. Edit: And not Kotozakura either, as one of the win was fusen. So 12 men in total)

• And with wins more than 4: Akinoshima (7-0) Konishiki, Toyonoshima (5-0) Chiyotaikai, Terunofuji (5-0) Asanoyama

Edited March 21, 2022 by Chiyotasuke

[Kurowashi 42]

13 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I have a feeling this Kotonowaka may be better than his dad was, though whether he can turn out to be as good as his granddad remains to be seen. I'm not counting him out of it until he is.

Who was his grandfather again, i somehow can‘t remember right now ?

[Seiyashi 4,072]

1 minute ago, Kurowashi said:

Who was his grandfather again, i somehow can‘t remember right now ?

53rd yokozuna Kotozakura. Yokozuna was a bit of a pinnacle rank achievement for him rather than his true sustained level; he won 5 yūshō but only 1 as a yokozuna, and he struggled with injury even as an ōzeki. The current Sadogatake, the first Kotonowaka, is actually Kotozakura's son-in-law subsequently adopted into the family, which is why the current Kotonowaka's surname is Kamatani (Kotozakura's) rather than Konno (Sadogatake's).

Word is that Kotonowaka will inherit the Kotozakura shikona should he succeed in attaining the rank of ōzeki.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Sue 493]

Lesson from Takayasu: if you're going to pull, do it when you've got your opponent backed up on the tawara, so you have the whole length of the dohyo to recover when it doesn't work.

[Sue 493]

Wow! What an un-Kounosuke-like colour Kounosuke is wearing today! Is he allowed to do that? (No wonder he's a bit off his game today.)

[Kurowashi 42]

57 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

53rd yokozuna Kotozakura. Yokozuna was a bit of a pinnacle rank achievement for him rather than his true sustained level; he won 5 yūshō but only 1 as a yokozuna, and he struggled with injury even as an ōzeki. The current Sadogatake, the first Kotonowaka, is actually Kotozakura's son-in-law subsequently adopted into the family, which is why the current Kotonowaka's surname is Kamatani (Kotozakura's) rather than Konno (Sadogatake's).

Word is that Kotonowaka will inherit the Kotozakura shikona should he succeed in attaining the rank of ōzeki.

Thanks a lot, for that great explanation !

[Reonito 1,384]

On 18/03/2022 at 12:50, Tigerboy1966 said:

I don't think anyone in the Ms top 15 is going to go 7-0. Chiyonoumi would probably have to get past Shonannoumi, Tochimaru, Shishi and Kinbozan... can't see that happening.

What do you think of his chances now?

[dingo 1,212]

Tochinoshin has a good chance of finally bagging a makunouchi kachikoshi again. I'm really rooting for him and Nishikigi as well.

Abi committed the strategic mistake of going for Takarafuji's neck. Someone should've told him...

Takakeisho didn't seem to generate his usual power today. I don't think Endo usually is that resistant to pushing.

Wakatakakage is the real deal, at least this basho. Every win he works hard, and is smart. Will be interesting to see if he can keep it up the next basho. His body type reminds me a bit of Chiyonofuji. 

And where has this Shoudai been the last few basho? Something has sparked him and it's a joy to see. 

[Asojima 2,873]

1 minute ago, dingo said:

Takakeisho didn't seem to generate his usual power today. I don't think Endo usually is that resistant to pushing.

Endo is never resistant to pushing.  It is his favorite tactic to retreat and turn aside when his opponent over pursues him.  Takakeisho is aware of that tactic and refused to pursue.

[hakutorizakura 609]

28 minutes ago, dingo said:

And where has this Shoudai been the last few basho? Something has sparked him and it's a joy to see. 

Shodai A / Shodai B. Something like Kaisei. Or maybe there are Shodai A+ / A / B / C, dunno...

[dingo 1,212]

27 minutes ago, Asojima said:

Endo is never resistant to pushing.  It is his favorite tactic to retreat and turn aside when his opponent over pursues him.  Takakeisho is aware of that tactic and refused to pursue.

That still didn't get him anywhere though. I would've expected Takakeisho to go all out as he usually does, instead of strategizing.