Benevolance

Haru 2022 Discussion Thread (SPOILERS!)

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Takayasu looking like his former Ozeki self, both in bodyweight and in form. 8-0!

His heya's forced COVID kyujo last basho seems to have healed and rejuvenated him. 

Not surprising considering he and Tochinoshin also benefited from the COVID-cancelled basho two years ago, turning in their strongest records for a long time. But remember he got to 10-2 with 2 wins over his nearest competition, and managed to blow it this time last year; I'd be less enthusiastic about him until he actually secures it on Day 13 or so.

Shodai is looking a little less put out, which is probably good news. At least he has some sort of dohyo sense back if today and yesterday's wins are any indication, since he still gets shoved around but can still manage to put his opponent's back up to it.

Edited by Seiyashi

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Nice one by Shodai. Yeees, he's now 7-1 against Kiribayama, he was expected to win that, but it's the way he won. Kiribayama didn't just drop dead.

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I like this new Mitakeumi. After Terunofuji's departure, probably the next best physical presence in sumo at least this basho (shared with Takayasu).

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Hoshoryu never knew what hit him there. Mitakeumi in total control.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Not surprising considering he and Tochinoshin also benefited from the COVID-cancelled basho two years ago, turning in their strongest records for a long time. But remember he got to 10-2 with 2 wins over his nearest competition, and managed to blow it this time last year; I'd be less enthusiastic about him until he actually secures it on Day 13 or so.

Shodai is looking a little less put out, which is probably good news. At least he has some sort of dohyo sense back if today and yesterday's wins are any indication, since he still gets shoved around but can still manage to put his opponent's back up to it.

He might be more primed to win his first yusho than you give him credit for. 

On the NHK broadcast, Magaki oyakata proclaimed his body "ripe" and "juicy."

Edited by Kaninoyama
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Amamaniac said:
17 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

So when do we think Takayasu will start being matched against sanyaku opponents.

I'm going with Endo on Day 9

Apparently, Isegahama-Oyakata & co are happy to let Takayasu face another lower-ranked opponent on Day 9: Aoiyama (10w).  At 3-5, Aoiyama might be considered a gift to the front-runner, but in sumo, one never knows what will happen in the heat of combat.

Seems like the Takayasu potential first Top Division narrative is getting a nice massage (or "is a nice message"). ;-)

Edited by Amamaniac
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:
24 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Not surprising considering he and Tochinoshin also benefited from the COVID-cancelled basho two years ago, turning in their strongest records for a long time. But remember he got to 10-2 with 2 wins over his nearest competition, and managed to blow it this time last year; I'd be less enthusiastic about him until he actually secures it on Day 13 or so.

Shodai is looking a little less put out, which is probably good news. At least he has some sort of dohyo sense back if today and yesterday's wins are any indication, since he still gets shoved around but can still manage to put his opponent's back up to it.

He might be more primed to win his first yusho than you give him credit for. 

On the NHK broadcast, Magaki oyakata proclaimed his body "ripe" and "juicy."

Physically primed and mentally motivated, I have no doubt. But the one thing that stopped him last year - lack of experience and calm in the final stretch - is arguably unfixed; he perhaps knows what he shouldn't do but that's not to say that he does now know what he should do. And he's also sooner or later going to run into the most dangerous sanyaku we've had for a very long time: Mitakeumi and Takakeisho are living up to their rank, and Abi and Wakatakakage aren't looking at all like incumbents.

Don't get me wrong - I'd like him to win his first yusho after so long, and he looks good thus far too, but his past record isn't exactly stellar. I would rate his chances pretty ok if he gets to a dangerous match and wins it, because sometimes this self-confidence is self-sustaining. But there's also an equal danger of him getting to 2-up, losing 2 matches in a row, and them completely losing it - again.

Edited by Seiyashi

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Weird hypothetical ahoy. I notice that the two last unbeaten jonokuchi wrestlers (Kototebakari and Kotokenryu) who are both from Sadogatake, have been matched against jonidan opponents on "Day 5". Nothing odd about that. But if they win, and then win again against jonidan opponents on "Day 6" then we could be left with a strange situation in which the 6-0 crowd consist of 2 makushita, 3 sandanme, 1 jonidan and 2 jonokuchi. Unlikely I know but stick with me. In those circumstances, and given the fact that undefeated wrestlers are usually matched against each other, is a sandanme-jonokuchi match theoretically possible?

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Posted (edited)

I'd think they'd find a 5-1 before ever matching rikishi 2 divisions apart. There have been 6-0 vs 5-1 before.

Edited by Katooshu

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3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Apparently, Isegahama-Oyakata & co are happy to let Takayasu face another lower-ranked opponent on Day 9: Aoiyama (10w).  At 3-5, Aoiyama might be considered a gift to the front-runner, but in sumo, one never knows what will happen in the heat of combat.

Seems like the Takayasu potential first Top Division narrative is getting a nice massage (or "is a nice message"). ;-)

I admit I was expecting myself a match against a M4 for Day 9. However, I went back to give a look to the schedule Abi had last basho as a M6 yusho hopeful. Aside from a fight against M4 Hokutofuji on Day 5, Abi did not face anyone that high before Day 10 when he was paired against the other M4 Okinoumi. After that, the was paired with M2 Ichinojo on Day 11 and went up the ranks until fighting Terunofuji on Day 14. If this is the blueprint for a non-upper Maegashira yusho hopeful, perhaps Takayasu and Kotonowaka will face a M4 (Endo or Kiribayama) on Day 10 and then go up the ranks.

If things remain as they are now, I think Takayasu could face Wakatakakage on Day 13 and Mitakeumi on Day 14, while Kotonowaka might face Abi and Takakeisho on the same days (a couple more losses but still on the run). They will possibly swap their Sekiwake on Day 15, while Takakeisho vs. Mitakeumi might do for the final showdown. I do not count Shodai as he was sidelined every time in the last bashos. It's a bit sad but he's much of an extra Ozeki for the pairings, too much out of contention.

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So, is the 'Koto' in Kotokuzan a phononym? I didn't realise until yesterday that he wasn't in Sadogatake.

I thought nakabi produced some great sumo. I particularly enjoyed the 1st Tobizaru-Hokutofuji bout. The Flying Monkey always manages to exceed my expectations, even when he loses. He sure made Hokutofuji work hard today.

I noticed on day 2 that Takayasu looked in way better form than he has for a while, but it's hard to put my finger on what's changed. Sure, he had a rest due to the Covid kyujo, but I think it's more than that; i.e. something psychological. Hopefully he's got his head in a place that won't let him choke on a 2-win lead this time...

Mitakeumi absolutely looks the part of ozeki right now, and while it's true that he's 'only' a couple of yusho away from the rope, his past record doesn't make it look all that probable. 
The overall rate of ex-collegiate rikishi making yokozuna makes it look even less likely.
But 3 years ago I believed there was no chance Terunofuji would ever make it back to ozeki.

Shodai seems to have rediscovered his mojo a bit too late. Takakeisho looks on course to clear kadoban, though, with yet another win over his old schooldays rival.

This is one of those basho where I'm going to be happy to see the winner win no matter who he is - and still so many in the race, which is great.

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Aoiyama won Takayasu exactly one year ago, so everything could happen. And Takayasu won his bouts against Terunofuji and Takakeisho, theoretically the hard ones, and then lost against Wakatakakage, Tobizaru and Aoiyama. Sumo is a fast and brutal sport, and if you blink one second you can be on the ground, despite being fighting well the whole basho. So let's see how this goes.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

So, is the 'Koto' in Kotokuzan a phononym? I didn't realise until yesterday that he wasn't in Sadogatake.

Kou, not Koto: the "Kou" is an alternate pronunciation of the "Ara" kanji in his stable name, meaning wild. He comes from Kanagawa, so unlikely that the Kou is a geographic reference as opposed to a stable tag.

Also, since the kanji in question is actually pronounced Kou, so his shikona is read Kou-toku-zan, not Koto-kuzan as a Sadogatake shikona would be pronounced. It's fairly obvious when listening to his shikona being spoken, but not at all with the Simplified Hepburn that we tend to use.

Edited by Seiyashi
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6 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Oh, I don't know... by my count WMH got his favoured inside left grip on five separate occasions and then released it. Takayasu has been somewhat fortunate in that most of his opponents have not produced their best sumo.

It's not that Wakamotoharu let go, the grip was broken off by Takayasu very efficiently several times. 

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5 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

So, is the 'Koto' in Kotokuzan a phononym? I didn't realise until yesterday that he wasn't in Sadogatake.

I scoured the internet (Ok, I just did on Google search) for someone confused about Kotoeko vs. Kotokuzan and didn't find anything.  I was definitely waiting for someone to chime in about Kotokuzan's apparent place in Sadogatake judging by his name, now that he's in Makuuchi.  It's been commented on numerous times in the past, and I'm not surprised there are still people who aren't (or weren't) aware.

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7 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Weird hypothetical ahoy. I notice that the two last unbeaten jonokuchi wrestlers (Kototebakari and Kotokenryu) who are both from Sadogatake, have been matched against jonidan opponents on "Day 5". Nothing odd about that. But if they win, and then win again against jonidan opponents on "Day 6" then we could be left with a strange situation in which the 6-0 crowd consist of 2 makushita, 3 sandanme, 1 jonidan and 2 jonokuchi. Unlikely I know but stick with me. In those circumstances, and given the fact that undefeated wrestlers are usually matched against each other, is a sandanme-jonokuchi match theoretically possible?

If only the database weren't down yet again...

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6 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Kou, not Koto: the "Kou" is an alternate pronunciation of the "Ara" kanji in his stable name, meaning wild. He comes from Kanagawa, so unlikely that the Kou is a geographic reference as opposed to a stable tag.

Also, since the kanji in question is actually pronounced Kou, so his shikona is read Kou-toku-zan, not Koto-kuzan as a Sadogatake shikona would be pronounced. It's fairly obvious when listening to his shikona being spoken, but not at all with the Simplified Hepburn that we tend to use.

So Moti's "extra" 'U's would actually have come in handy here...
My bad for not paying more attention to the pronunciation on Natto's digest, I guess.

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

I scoured the internet (Ok, I just did on Google search) for someone confused about Kotoeko vs. Kotokuzan and didn't find anything.  

It wasn't confusing. As soon as I saw them up against each other nowhere near a play-off, my thought was pure binary not knowing to knowing they were from different stables. I meant to ask yesterday, but forgot.
My bad for not following him all the way up from jonokuchi, but Kotokuzan is the top result on my Google, so I guess he's been a popular recent search for people wondering which stable he's actually from (it's Arashio for anyone who's not had a look yet).

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I'm not sure why they would start making Takayasu face upper ranked wrestlers at this point, as opposed to continuing their usual scheduling? Because he's been at the top before? Isn't it more usual to expect him to face someone in the running, but higher up the banzuke, around day 13 when they actually need to settle the yusho race? It feels to me that's how they've done it for a while now. 

9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Repeating that matchup was almost match-fixing by the schedulers. Total waste of time. Aoiyama just turned up to lose and I don't ever remember him getting close to an upset. He knew his role.

Poor Aoiyama. But I dare you to find a rikishi vs Hakuho not named Harumafuji or Kisenosato that would be considered fair odds during Hak's reign. I remember very heated* discussions on the forums as to whether Kise was 'good' or 'bad' based on the fact that he won about 1 in 3 or 4 times vs Hakuho, and he had the second best record against the daiyokozuna. 

*as heated as an outdoor hockey rink in Red Deer

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

So Moti's "extra" 'U's would actually have come in handy here...
My bad for not paying more attention to the pronunciation on Natto's digest, I guess.

 

No, your (and everyone else's) bad not to write it the way I do. And for not watching my digests (where the spelling leaves no doubt), inferior as they may be compared to the latest technological developments. And yes, yes, I'm bitter. But old age allows for that.

Edited by Kintamayama
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33 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

No, your (and everyone else's) bad not to write it the way I do. And for not watching my digests (where the spelling leaves no doubt), inferior as they may be compared to the latest technological developments. And yes, yes, I'm bitter. But old age allows for that.

You should also say that they are wong! :-D

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ShoUdai sometimes amazes me. At times he is able to beat his opponent almost single-handedly, and other times he did not seem too eager to raise a hand and just gave up...

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

You should also say that they are wong! :-D

Of course they are wrong. Shikona kanji are hard to read even for Japanese because there are so many possible readings.That's why on the Kyokai site they are written in hiragana as well. I just copy the hiragana, because it's the correct way, period. Mind you, I'm not the crazy homeless guy talking to himself on the subway- I do the spelling only for shikona. I don''t write Toukyou. Everyone knows Tokyo, even if I write Toykyoy. But no one knows Koutokuzan unless it's written that way. "But the Kyokai writes it differently!" Yeah, right. the Kyokai excels in English. Go to their official site in English. "Have you seen the sumo?" Read the rules for behavior during the pandemic. On every page you can find glaring mistakes. Let's go by their way, sure. In short, if you want to know how the shikona are pronounced, my way is the only way. You can throw words like Hepburn at me, but when it comes to shikona, my way is the only correct way.

Edited by Kintamayama
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36 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Of course they are wrong. Shikona kanji are hard to read even for Japanese because there are so many possible readings.That's why on the Kyokai site they are written in hiragana as well. I just copy the hiragana, because it's the correct way, period. Mind you, I'm not the crazy homeless guy talking to himself on the subway- I do the spelling only for shikona. I don''t write Toukyou. Everyone knows Tokyo, even if I write Toykyoy. But no one knows Koutokuzan unless it's written that way. "But the Kyokai writes it differently!" Yeah, right. the Kyokai excels in English. Go to their official site in English. "Have you seen the sumo?" Read the rules for behavior during the pandemic. On every page you can find glaring mistakes. Let's go by their way, sure. In short, if you want to know how the shikona are pronounced, my way is the only way. You can throw words like Hepburn at me, but when it comes to shikona, my way is the only correct way.

Ōnōsho mentioned that just the other day, I think. (Sigh...)

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Just now, Yamanashi said:

Ōnōsho mentioned that just the other day, I think. (Sigh...)

I would type with macrons, but the forum only takes altcodes up to 256, and as accurate as long vowels are they look a bit wrong with the doubled word length. I know, I know... 

Actually, hold up: I wonder if my keyboard can be programmed to do something about this... 

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