Hatsu 2022 discussions (results)

[Yamanashi 3,690]

6 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

So the only 2 options if there's no one to fill the spot are (1) sumo ends forever or (2) they bring back a long retired yokozuna or ozeki and insert him into the ranking, in the laugh out loud family comedy of the year 

Of course (1) won't happen, because Ozumo is integral to Shinto rite, and is at the heart of the nation's world view.  Instead (2) will occur, but because of the unprecedented natural imbalance, the rikishi brought back to fill the gap will be Raiden himself*, who will defeat all current Makuuchi until Mitakeumi finally wins 13 bouts in a basho.

*Raiden will be brought in as Ozeki, of course ; he still won't be elevated to Yokozuna.

[Morty 1,480]

49 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

So the only 2 options if there's no one to fill the spot are (1) sumo ends forever or (2) they bring back a long retired yokozuna or ozeki and insert him into the ranking, in the laugh out loud family comedy of the year 

Watching Hak prowl around like a caged tiger while on Oyakata guard duty the other day, I would suggest he's ready to put his hand up for option 2.

[Godango 956]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

So the only 2 options if there's no one to fill the spot are (1) sumo ends forever or (2) they bring back a long retired yokozuna or ozeki and insert him into the ranking, in the laugh out loud family comedy of the year 

For real though, why run the risk of 'well if I guess we just hope that the worst case doesn't happen and we have to promote someone who clearly doesn't deserve it' rather than promote a possibly borderline case now? They'll promote 'im.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Godango

[Gurowake 3,886]

It's possible that they plain don't demote an Ozeki if there's no one coming up to make two of them.  I don't know how they'd treat them going forward, but that's generally how they handle cases where no one is worthy of a rank/division and there normally would be a demotion.  That might only be used as a last resort when there's no KK Sekiwake though.  And obviously I'm just guessing, because this is uncharted territory.  I hope they at least have some protocol written up and aren't going to have to make it up as they go along.

I also might imagine them saying bollocks to the "rule" there has to be two Ozeki, and fill the sanyaku out to 3 on each side with additional lower sanyaku (if not already present).  Who said the "three ranks" need to all have different titles?

Edited January 20, 2022 by Gurowake

[Seiyashi 4,068]

19 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

It's possible that they plain don't demote an Ozeki if there's no one coming up to make two of them.  I don't know how they'd treat them going forward, but that's generally how they handle cases where no one is worthy of a rank/division and there normally would be a demotion.  That might only be used as a last resort when there's no KK Sekiwake though.  And obviously I'm just guessing, because this is uncharted territory.  I hope they at least have some protocol written up and aren't going to have to make it up as they go along.

I also might imagine them saying bollocks to the "rule" there has to be two Ozeki, and fill the sanyaku out to 3 on each side with additional lower sanyaku (if not already present).  Who said the "three ranks" need to all have different titles?

Even if both Takakeisho and Shodai get demoted in Haru, I wouldn't bet against Takakeisho scoring an immediate return in Natsu especially if he takes Haru off entirely. It doesn't solve Natsu's banzuke being short on ozeki, and it's probably still better for the banzuke in the long run to promote Mitakeumi now, but it's not as if both ozeki are about to retire tomorrow. 

Also, in before ozekiwake becomes a real thing, lile the sekiwake version of yokozuna-ozeki. That said, if they have that out, Mitakeumi's just going to be the perpetual ozekiwake if they don't promote him this time. 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

What they’d do in the event of both Ozeki going MK again (and assuming Mitakeumi hadn’t been promoted) would come down to which custom they feel more comfortable about sticking two fingers up at: the ‘banzuke needs two Ozeki rule’ or the ‘Ozeki get demoted after two makekoshi’ rule. My personal vote would be for the former. It’s the longer-lasting, more important custom, but it’s the one rooted in culture, not sport. As someone who watches sumo primarily as a sport, I vote for acting on how well a rikishi is performing and not out of respect for tradition. But that’s me, and I don’t get a vote.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

If push comes to shove the two MK rule will get told to sod off. The kadoban system with immediate repromotion dates only to 1969 and before that, IIRC, the demotion criteria for ozeki was 3 MK without immediate repromotion. Both rules might seem almost absolute today but one is far less sacrosanct, having already been twiddled with. 

That said, while I think Mitakeumi deserves promotion, part of me does want to see what happen if the banzuke runs out of Y/Os. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Seiyashi

[rhyen 1,801]

4 hours ago, Katooshu said:

So the only 2 options if there's no one to fill the spot are (1) sumo ends forever or (2) they bring back a long retired yokozuna or ozeki and insert him into the ranking, in the laugh out loud family comedy of the year 

How come no one is noticing the possibility of a new 3rd option in this COVID era.

just make sure that Takakeisho & Shodai get positive COVID test just before the start of the March honbasho (which may not be held in Osaka). 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

20 minutes ago, rhyen said:

How come no one is noticing the possibility of a new 3rd option in this COVID era.

just make sure that Takakeisho & Shodai get positive COVID test just before the start of the March honbasho (which may not be held in Osaka). 

It's so crazy, it just might work.

[rhyen 1,801]

Did anyone notice the Harumafuji reference from Hoshoryu in yesterday’s bout?

[rhyen 1,801]

6 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Of course (1) won't happen, because Ozumo is integral to Shinto rite, and is at the heart of the nation's world view.  Instead (2) will occur, but because of the unprecedented natural imbalance, the rikishi brought back to fill the gap will be Raiden himself*, who will defeat all current Makuuchi until Mitakeumi finally wins 13 bouts in a basho.

*Raiden will be brought in as Ozeki, of course ; he still won't be elevated to Yokozuna.

Sorry, Raiden is engaged in combat with Shiva in Raganarok.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Superb defence from Takarafuji on the bails. Are we heading for a water break?

I'm not sure I've ever heard such audible panting during a bout.

Ah, Takarafuji's resistance finally broke. That was a titanic effort!

Edited January 20, 2022 by Eikokurai

[robnplunder 974]

Ichinojo wins a marathon. 

I see more of Ura's smirk/smile after a match.  Makes me smile, too.  A good win against Yuta.  Ura still has a chance to be a Komusubi after this basho.

[jsolo 106]

January (Hatsu) 2022 Basho--DAY 10 and DAY 11 Links and Statistics Blog--videos, photos, match articles, quotes, results and standings, kimarite statistics, time of match statistics, top rank performance, Maegashira v san'yaku, Rookie performances and more. Note. This link is to Day 10. Day 10 links to Day 11. All Days link to all other Days.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Niiice uwatenage by Endo on Kiribayama after a good bit of back and forth.

[Kurowashi 42]

Wow, what a perfect uwatenage by Endo !

[Godango 956]

Ohh, that ain't a look good for Mitakeumi.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Cheap loss/win, depending on how you see it.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

4 minutes ago, Godango said:

Ohh, that ain't a look good for Mitakeumi.

Yep. Shades of week 2 Mitakeumi showing up even as he is still in a good position on the arasoi otherwise. It might be a cheap loss but it still looks bad to be smoked like that - almost Shodaiesque, and that's the last person you want comparisons to when pursuing an ozeki run now. 

Pity, too. If I understood them correctly, the NHK announcer and Kitanofuji were pointing out this is the first time Mitakeumi has strung together back to back double digit wins, and if he is promoted, he will be only the second Nagano ozeki, the first being the legendary Raiden Tameemon. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Godango 956]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

Yep. Shades of week 2 Mitakeumi showing up even as he is still in a good position on the arasoi otherwise. 

Pity, too. If I understood them correctly, the NHK announcer and Kitanofuji were pointing out this is the first time Mitakeumi has strung together back to back double digit wins, and if he is promoted, he will be the first Nagano ozeki since the legendary Raiden Tameemon. 

Not a huge deal in and of itself, as long as it isn't the start of a trend. All my talk aside, the optics of dropping four in a row to end things would be pretty awful.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

It's almost a mirror of last basho. The only difference is he didn't lose on day 5. He did lose on days 10 and 12. Another loss tomorrow to come followed by two wins to finish up.

[Hankegami 412]

7 hours ago, Katooshu said:

So the only 2 options if there's no one to fill the spot are (1) sumo ends forever or (2) they bring back a long retired yokozuna or ozeki and insert him into the ranking, in the laugh out loud family comedy of the year 

Jokes aside, I believe that they might in case make a new version of the old "guest ozeki" rule. You know, when in the Edo period local big men were invited to participate as "guest ozeki" just to attract crowds. Well, this time they might decide to "invite" the Sekiwake to fill the Ozeki spot for a basho without actually giving them the rank.

This does not mean they *are* Ozeki, though. They keep their original role unless properly promoted. The Sekiware 1W (with the Yokozuna taking the East spot) will be listed as "Sekiwake 1W Guest Ozeki". In case there are only two Sekiwake, the Komosubi 1W will be "Guest Sekiwake" and the Maegashira 1W "Guest Komusubi". No further invitations. The Maegashira 2W will remain there and the 1W spot will remain void. These "guest" appointments are however not kept the following basho and their recipients will be treated considering their actual rank. They went MK? Other rikishi will take their Sekiwake and Komusubi ranks incuding eventual "guest" appointments.

EDIT: Mitakeumi just lost to Onosho. The NSK must really look for a solution just in case.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Hankegami

[Kaninoyama 1,663]

Mitakeumi better not sleep on Abi tomorrow, or things can start to go downhill quickly for his Ozeki hopes this basho. 

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Double-digits for Abi again. Back at the business end of the joi for sure in March and potentially a sanyaku slot if the guys above him don't stake their claims.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

I think I see what happened ... during their bout yesterday, Mitakeumi and Shodai body-swapped back again. Mitakeumi became Shodai today and Shodai became Mitakeumi. It's confusing!