Hakuho retires

[Koorifuu 886]

On 02/10/2021 at 00:23, bettega said:

There's a expression for this photo in Portuguese: "cara de bunda" (something alike but not exactly "assface"). It's a face os forced smile in a situation where you would not smile at all.

 

Funny how languages work... I'm Portuguese, that's a Portuguese expression, and yet no Portuguese person would ever say it. That's what 200 years of separate evolution does, ever since the Brazilian independence.

But back to the topic...

I had sworn to myself that I wouldn't post here again, for reasons I shan't disclose, but it feels this event definitely warrants breaking my oath to myself.

I had always been one of the first people here to condemn Hakuho for his perceived underhanded tactics, however, this piece of news gave me some rose-tinted glasses. The ending's almost romantic: a man who defied logic and time, continuously setting all-time records on such a long sport, noticing and acknowledging his increasingly damaged body - took some measures to adapt it to his determination and motivation (which, unlike the physical part, was not waning at all) for a few more records before he went out with a bang in so many levels. He will sorely be missed and, even though we've had some years to acclimatise to what ozumo is going to look without him on the dohyo, it'll still take years to set in.

Now - my favourite memory of Hakuho - having watched sumo in its Eurosport runs (back to the Hanada vs Hawaii feud, and a few years later, Asashoryu's ascent to the throne), but most importantly back for good upon hearing of Kaiou's retirement about a decade ago...

Remember when Kisenosato went on his mean streak a few years ago? I can't put my finger on the specific year right now, but he went on a deliberate matta + intimidating shove rampage. There was, specifically, Kotoshogiku - whose gentle heart immediately crumbled in the face of that bullying and got pushed out quite quickly. I remember @Kintamayama's comment on his digest video even if I haven't watched it since then: "Not sorry, and here's an extra shove to the neck!!"

Current Araiso, for some reason I can't fathom, decided that trying the same stunt on Hakuho was a decent idea... And duly got treated to a faceful of clay within seconds, as Hakuho delivered a blatant henka that'd make Takanoyama proud. Lesson on manners taught.

If there's any solace to the fact the NSK/YDC is screwing him up and that he'll probably be kicked out for a very minor (at best) forged (at worst) infraction as soon as the situation calms down, in between one year / two years' time... it's that 白鵬 翔 is his official name now, so he'll trigger some beautiful meltdowns on Yano, Shibatayama & Co when he inevitably sullies the sacred name by using it on puroresu or something similar.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Koorifuu
Typo

[code_number3 694]

5 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Enough said. 

 

Looks good without tie needed. He will look cooler if his suit fits him well!

 

[Benevolance 2,478]

3 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Current Araiso, for some reason I can't fathom, decided that trying the same stunt on Hakuho was a decent idea... And duly got treated to a faceful of clay within seconds, as Hakuho delivered a blatant henka that'd make Takanoyama proud. Lesson on manners taught.

I remember that! It was, like so much of what Hakuho did, perfectly delivered and executed with a little 'tap' as Kise went by to make it hatakikomi. My friends and I watching could not stop laughing. I've warmed a lot to Kise over the years, but at the time we all felt the villain got what he deserved for roughing up the geek. 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

3 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Funny how languages work... I'm Portuguese, that's a Portuguese expression, and yet no Portuguese person would ever say it. That's what 200 years of separate evolution does, ever since the Brazilian independence.

This might be of interest to you: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/SeparatedByACommonLanguage

3 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Remember when Kisenosato went on his mean streak a few years ago? I can't put my finger on the specific year right now, but he went on a deliberate matta + intimidating shove rampage. There was, specifically, Kotoshogiku - whose gentle heart immediately crumbled in the face of that bullying and got pushed out quite quickly. I remember @Kintamayama's comment on his digest video even if I haven't watched it since then: "Not sorry, and here's an extra shove to the neck!!"

Any representative sample of this? Sounds like it would be hilarious to watch Hakuho's retribution.

[Kamitsuumi 384]

27 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Any representative sample of this? Sounds like it would be hilarious to watch Hakuho's retribution.

Kisenosato vs Kotoshogiku, Natsu 2012: 

Hakuho vs Kisenosato, Nagoya 2012: 

 

[Seiyashi 4,071]

Thanks very much. Major salt incoming (mainly because I really hate double standards), but I'm surprised anyone ever let Kisenosato forget this era, much less everyone. Deliberate matta shoves of this sort is IMO way more unforgivable compared to Hakuho's fist pump.

[Gospodin 187]

3 hours ago, code_number3 said:

Looks good without tie needed. He will look cooler if his suit fits him well!

 

Not that it matters at all, but in my country blue suits are the ultimate testament of really bad taste. They even beat furs for men.  Brrrr...

[Yaochozuna 137]

27 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Kisenosato vs Kotoshogiku, Natsu 2012: 

Hakuho vs Kisenosato, Nagoya 2012: 

 

Ah, thanks for reminding me why I never liked Kisenosato (strangely, I seem to like Araiso, though). That henka of Hakuho's is a thing of pure beauty. Also Kisenosato's face expression change. Golden!

[Koorifuu 886]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Thanks very much. Major salt incoming (mainly because I really hate double standards), but I'm surprised anyone ever let Kisenosato forget this era, much less everyone. Deliberate matta shoves of this sort is IMO way more unforgivable compared to Hakuho's fist pump.

 

2 hours ago, Yaochozuna said:

Ah, thanks for reminding me why I never liked Kisenosato (strangely, I seem to like Araiso, though). That henka of Hakuho's is a thing of pure beauty. Also Kisenosato's face expression change. Golden!

The interesting part is that, back then, there was complete radio silence coming from NSK and YDC both. No complaint about Kisenosato's attitude, for obvious reasons - but also no hinkaku complaint whatsoever regarding Hakuho's henka. How times have changed.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Koorifuu

[Seiyashi 4,071]

8 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

 

The interesting part is that, back then, there was complete radio silence coming from NSK and YDC both. No complaint about Kisenosato's attitude, for obvious reasons - but also no hinkaku complaint whatsoever regarding Hakuho's henka. How times have changed.

Jason's commentary suggests that Hakuho's henka was an extreme rarity, and considering Kisenosato had just bumrushed him twice, I think everyone agreed two wrongs (or three, depending on how you're counting) made a right. Also, the yusho wasn't up for grabs in that particular bout or anything like that, so no harm no foul in that department, either, unlike Hakuho's infamous yusho-winning henka a few years later.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Seiyashi

[yorikiried by fate 1,989]

8 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

The interesting part is that, back then, there was complete radio silence coming from NSK and YDC both.

On the part of NSK: Different management?

Hakkaku's take-over at the end of 2015 must have been really liberating for the local boys of the time, what with them suddenly starting to be yusho-competitive and such. I guess that "compliance" was a topic pretty high on the new rijicho's agenda.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Jason's commentary suggests that Hakuho's henka was an extreme rarity, and considering Kisenosato had just bumrushed him twice, I think everyone agreed two wrongs (or three, depending on how you're counting) made a right. Also, the yusho wasn't up for grabs in that particular bout or anything like that, so no harm no foul in that department, either, unlike Hakuho's infamous yusho-winning henka a few years later.

That bout was actually one of the more critical bouts in the 2012 Nagoya Tournament.  Harumafuji had secured 14-0 two bouts earlier, and Hakuho had to win against Kisenosato to stay tied for a big Senshuraku winner-takes-all showdown.  I'd argue that the henka against an Ozeki opponent at that stage had a degree or "harm and foul".  But that's sumo.  The way Hakuho put Kisenosato in his place was actually admirable IMHO.

I missed that tournament since I was in the middle of an international relocation, so I really appreciate @Koorifuu and @Kamitsuumi for shedding light on it.

[Mightyduck 67]

15 hours ago, Benevolance said:

I remember that! It was, like so much of what Hakuho did, perfectly delivered and executed with a little 'tap' as Kise went by to make it hatakikomi. My friends and I watching could not stop laughing. I've warmed a lot to Kise over the years, but at the time we all felt the villain got what he deserved for roughing up the geek. 

The way he used his left hand to push away Kisenosato's arm was sublime.

I don't like henkas as a rule, but you do have to appreciate the speed and technique there.

[Gospodin 187]

4 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Hakkaku's take-over at the end of 2015 must have been really liberating for the local boys of the time, what with them suddenly starting to be yusho-competitive and such.

It coincided with the end of Hakuho´s complete dominance.

[itchyknee 60]

On 02/10/2021 at 02:42, RabidJohn said:

Yes, I find this pledge-signing business highly distasteful (rooted in xenophobia as it is),

Is it rooted in xenophobia, or in the behavior of the last two Dai-Dai Yokozuna (Takanohana, the last to be an elder, in particular)?

[Yamanashi 3,724]

49 minutes ago, itchyknee said:

Is it rooted in xenophobia, or in the behavior of the last two Dai-Dai Yokozuna (Takanohana, the last to be an elder, in particular)?

Can't it be both?

[itchyknee 60]

44 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Can't it be both?

Sure. But I'd think it would have to at least include another factor than xenophobia. I haven't paid much attention recently. Did Kakuryu have to sign any such thing? I guess only (currently) having a temporary stay as an elder is an excuse in Kakuryu's case if he didn't have to sign such a statement.

I'm too new to sumo to know what went on with Akebono or Musashimaru, though the later seems to be doing fine as an elder.

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

On 05/10/2021 at 08:06, yorikiried by fate said:

Hakkaku's take-over at the end of 2015 must have been really liberating for the local boys of the time, what with them suddenly starting to be yusho-competitive and such. I guess that "compliance" was a topic pretty high on the new rijicho's agenda.

Number of yusho by Japanese-born wrestlers in the six years prior to Hakkaku's appointment = 0

Number of yusho by Japanese-born wrestlers in the six years since Hakkaku's appointment = 12

[RabidJohn 1,663]

3 hours ago, itchyknee said:

Is it rooted in xenophobia, or in the behavior of the last two Dai-Dai Yokozuna (Takanohana, the last to be an elder, in particular)?

CBA to search for the relevant threads, but there was that committee whose report included not giving out any more ichidai-toshiyori. The same report also went on about foreign born rikishi not being suitable as elders (or words to that effect), which is irrationally xenophobic as there are several already doing a fine job within the NSK.

Maybe it's just a coincidence that they didn't give Hakuho the ichidai-toshiyori, and it had nothing to do with the report, but I don't believe that.

Which is not to say their experience with Takanohana had no bearing on the decision not to give Hakuho the ichidai-toshiyori, because it probably did.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

5 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

CBA to search for the relevant threads, but there was that committee whose report included not giving out any more ichidai-toshiyori. The same report also went on about foreign born rikishi not being suitable as elders (or words to that effect), which is irrationally xenophobic as there are several already doing a fine job within the NSK.

Maybe it's just a coincidence that they didn't give Hakuho the ichidai-toshiyori, and it had nothing to do with the report, but I don't believe that.

Which is not to say their experience with Takanohana had no bearing on the decision not to give Hakuho the ichidai-toshiyori, because it probably did.

You mean the same report that praised Takamiyama and also had a portion written by Takamiyama himself?

The same report they had expertly translated to English so that foreign fans could read it?

[Asashosakari 18,786]

The whole "they just hate Hakuho because he's Mongolian" claim is, frankly, more than a little racist itself. I'm sure Hakuho appreciates being reduced to that aspect of his character and humanity by his alleged fans, who just can't imagine that anything else might play a role in how the Kyokai brass see him...

Edited October 6, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Jabbamaru 166]

Man...I mean...Maaan....

What can i say?

Well done, Mr.Mönkhbatyn Davaajargal. Well done. 

[hakutorizakura 590]

Ssshh, lower your voices... he's here.

[dada78641 884]

On 06/10/2021 at 17:42, Asashosakari said:

The whole "they just hate Hakuho because he's Mongolian" claim is, frankly, more than a little racist itself. I'm sure Hakuho appreciates being reduced to that aspect of his character and humanity by his alleged fans, who just can't imagine that anything else might play a role in how the Kyokai brass see him...

100% this. Which is not to say there is no xenophobia/nationalism in the NSK, because of course there is, but as with all social issues it's a lot more complicated than just "he's Mongolian so they hate him", and pretending it is just cheapens the issue and makes people not take it seriously.

[RabidJohn 1,663]

The trouble with the word xenophobia is too many people automatically conflate it with racism. Sign of the times, I suppose, but it's really a spectrum with racism at one extreme and the kind of harmless nationalism represented by supporting a national sports team at the other. (And if you're thinking "but that's not irrational so it can't be a phobia", let me assure you that the hopes and expectations of the average English football fan during any major tournament are hopelessly irrational.)

The NSK (and the YDC and the 'Oh' committee) wanting to preserve the 'Japaneseness' of ozumo does not lie on the racist side of the xenophobia spectrum IMO. I'm fine with one gaijin per heya and Japanese citizenship being a prerequisite for kabu eligibility in the same way that I'm fine with Champagne having to be made in the Champagne region.

Hakuho is responsible for some very significant lapses in hinkaku over 14 years as yokozuna, and now is the time of reckoning.

But I can't help it if I find some of the noises coming out of that reckoning a little distasteful - and I'm no snowflake.