Kaioshoryu

Hakuho retires

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I am fuming, foaming,  and will be thinking of my future in the virtual sumo world these coming days. Bad, bad, Kyokai.

Moti-san we need you! I don't think the sumo community can take another devastating loss...:'-(

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

That's pretty normal, isn't it? There's usually plenty of tearing up going on at intai conferences. 

For me it was so lacking the usual emotions that I didn't notice the actual moments of some emotions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

For me it was so lacking the usual emotions that I didn't notice the actual moments of some emotions

Mostly from his family?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I don't see Hakuho being a shimpan soon; the jungyo beat would be very good for him.  Running a heya seems to be a pretty full job, especially during a basho when you have rikishi participating, though many shimpan are Oyakata as well.  Most of all, I think the higher-ups would be nervous about Hakuho going rogue on mono-ii calls (whether those fears are warranted or not).

Yet, Kokonoe & Asakayama oyakata are often on the jungyo shimpan shift. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rhyen said:

Mostly from his family?

What Moti wrote, speaking about the oyakata, the family wasn't in the press conference, only afterwards at the flower ceremony.

I checked the part again, I'm not sure if there were any real emotions or just play. The emotions I felt were mainly stress and frustration about the treatment by the NSK, in the long pauses where he was looking for words that were fitting the part of the yokozuna with proper hinkaku, which he is forced to play now. Forced by the contract he had to sign and the promises he had to make to be allowed to become Magaki oyakata.

He did, and like Abi made it through the humiliating demotions and separation from his family, I think Hakuho will make it through this phase as well. I don't know how long that will take. Maybe it ends if he'll be allowed to become the successor to Miyagino-beya - the people who keep demanding 10 years of heya attachment also want to deny that to him. Some external would take over the heya in the case Hakuho can't convince them that he is an apt shisho, he, the one who already raised 2 Japanese makuuuchi rikishi, with the next sekitori not far away.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Some external would take over the heya in the case Hakuho can't convince them that he is an apt shisho, he, the one who already raised 2 Japanese makuuuchi rikishi, with the next sekitori not far away.

I thought he has 3 makuuchi uchideshi (Daikiho, Ishiura, Enho) and Hokuseiho is already sekitori. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm convinced more than ever that he will not stick around much longer.

Curious about your take here… are you thinking a couple months, a couple years, something in between?

Do you think he will actually be able to open this Nihonbashi stable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/09/2021 at 07:05, dada78641 said:

If we're talking about percentages, if Wikipedia is right, Hakuho ends with (of course) the highest ever win percentage: 84.6%. He's almost a full percentage point over Taiho (83.8%).

Although one time I checked the numbers and found it was counting fusensho wins/losses, which I think is dubious and probably shouldn't be done.

I'm ok with counting absence win/losses. Sumo is about fighting prowess and physical power, but also about bodily iron. Guys who somehow endure all of the falls and smash-ups to mount the dohyo when their opponents cannot are legitimate winners, in my view.

Of course there's luck involved qith who gets the "win" on an absence, but the "loss" is a true loss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

Ringside rikishi can, and if I remember correctly Hakuho already did

Really ? I can‘t believe that, wouldn‘t the rikishis be to biased to be allowed to call a mono-ii ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Kyokufuji said:

Curious about your take here… are you thinking a couple months, a couple years, something in between?

Do you think he will actually be able to open this Nihonbashi stable?

Between six months and a year-if he survives that, he's in for the long haul.  It all depends on how he will respond to starting off at the bottom rung of oyakatahood like all other retirees and to what extent the elders will be looking to find faults with him. Mostly his patience.

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Moti-san we need you! I don't think the sumo community can take another devastating loss...:'-(

I might get over it..

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Kurowashi said:

Really ? I can‘t believe that, wouldn‘t the rikishis be to biased to be allowed to call a mono-ii ?

Goeido vs Kakuryu, Natsu 2014 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kamitsuumi said:

I thought he has 3 makuuchi uchideshi (Daikiho, Ishiura, Enho) and Hokuseiho is already sekitori. 

Indeed, I already forgot Daikiho, he left the NSK quite a while ago, and the juryo promotion of Hokuseiho was during my kyujo, for me he is still one step away from sekitori, especially since he hasn't appeared on the juryo dohyo yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Voices of Japanese fans on the social media call the forced contract for Hakuho power harassment by the NSK, and "That just like at a black corporation" http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202109300001132.html

I'm kind of glad that people have reacted to this to such an extent that there's articles about it. Personally, I'm so used to Hakuho being finger wagged by the NSK that I barely even thought about it. To me these things seem as natural as the sun rising now.

On a side note, I tried to see if my IME will actually generate 間垣 when I type まがき - it doesn't, but one of the suggestions is 魔ガキ ("evil brat").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Goeido vs Kakuryu, Natsu 2014 

 

Who called the mono-ii ? I couldn‘t see it in the footage, seems like a normal mono-ii from a shimpan to me…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Kurowashi said:

Who called the mono-ii ? I couldn‘t see it in the footage, seems like a normal mono-ii from a shimpan to me…

Hakuho called the mono-ii.  Any of the four rikishi waiting (or remaining) ringside can call a mono-ii, but that one is the only one called by a rikishi any time recently.  Most rikishi probably aren't paying any attention to what's happening in the ring and focusing on their bout (whether prep or aftermath), but Hakuho is a cool enough cat to actually be able to watch and understand other fights even when his own is close at hand.   

I'm not sure what the calling rikishi is allowed to say to the shimpan about why they called it (from what I understand though, they can't), especially in the case of a hairpull missed by the other shimpan as was the case above, but they apparently figured it out.  If it just was a close call in a simultaneous fall, that would be more obvious.

Edited by Gurowake
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Kurowashi said:

Who called the mono-ii ? I couldn‘t see it in the footage, seems like a normal mono-ii from a shimpan to me…

2:03 and 3:05 you can see Hakuho raising his hand

Edited by Kamitsuumi
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What intrigues me is that the Gyoji looked over at Hakuho with his hand raised, seemed to nod his head, and immediately pop went the mono-ii.  No hesitation, no "What is this??? The proprieties!  A rikishi?  This is all highly irregular!"  I guess the Gyoji knew the rules.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow crazy, blows my mind (Blowingupfuriously...)That‘s one of the lovely things about sumo, with all the strict rules and hierarchy, there‘s always surprises to what is possible and what‘s not (Heart...)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kurowashi said:

Really ? I can‘t believe that, wouldn‘t the rikishis be to biased to be allowed to call a mono-ii ?

Well of course all sumo personnel are completely unbiased :) That's why the shimpan can oversee decisions involving their own rikishi. Anyway, although as Hakuho demonstrated the rikishi can call one, they can't take any further part in it, so any opportunities to take a win away from a rival are limited. 

I have a vague recollection years ago of Takanonami  raising his hand  by the ringside - but then denying afterwards that his intention was to call a monoii.

Edited by ryafuji
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Well of course all sumo personnel are completely unbiased :) That's why the shimpan can oversee decisions involving their own rikishi.

True, true ;-)

 

16 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Anyway, although as Hakuho demonstrated the rikishi can call one, they can't take any further part in it, so any opportunities to take a win away from a rival are limited. 

I have a vague recollection years ago of Takanonami  raising his hand  by the ringside - but then denying afterwards that his intention was to call a monoii.

Thanks, very intersting, i like that kind of trivia (Signofapproval...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I have a vague recollection years ago of Takanonami  raising his hand  by the ringside - but then denying afterwards that his intention was to call a monoii.

The famous monooii Hatsu 1996 by Takanonami to help Takanohana is the start of it all. At the time hardly anybody knew that rikishi waiting ringside are allowed to do so and it was a big story.

I never heard anything about a denial.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are several links (in English) that shed light on the situation.  They suggest that Hakuho may be swallowing his pride and playing the NSK's game (... for now).  Of course, he must be 10X more outraged than most of us are, but he knows how to deal with opponents of all shapes and sizes inside and outside the ring.  Furthermore, the editorials reveal that there are Japanese who find the targeting of Hakuho missteps to be racist (restoring my respect for Japan's Vox populi).

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14451823  (n.b., final line: ""He [Shibatayama] added that Hakuho showed no objection to signing the pledge.") 

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14451485

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14449268

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, rhyen said:

Yet, Kokonoe & Asakayama oyakata are often on the jungyo shimpan shift. 

That's got nothing to do with the jungyo department as such, though.

In general working in - even heading up - the jungyo department is not a particularly high profile job and can even be a bit of a poison chalice. Blast from the past:

In that case, it was the powers that be basically telling Takanohana, "You're unhappy with the state of sumo? Here's your chance to whip the rikishi into shape."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now