Akinomaki

Kyushu 2021 discussion

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As has been noted many times, Kaisei's hinkaku is impressive - I think vs other opponents Chiyonokuni's slap and kick fest would've drawn many a dirty stare instead of an immediate helping hand without the slightest look of agitation. 

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8 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

He ought to have gotten them two days earlier than he did and Mitakeumi and Ichinojo shanghaied to fill the void. He was fed two more freebies before they decided something had to be done about the maegashira chasers, by which time there was no time to cause them to intra - eliminate and pit the survivor against more top competition.  

Eh, the Day 8, 9 and 10 matches against Hidenoumi, Chiyotairyu, and Tobizaru were well up in rank from what he might have been given, and when those were drawn up he still didn't have a KK.  Even his Day 7 match against Hokutofuji was seen by some torikumi watchers to be a bit early since usually record isn't considered Week 1 while that match almost certainly was made on that basis, though it ended up being basically perfectly timed.  They really don't like to give them more extreme matches against people they wouldn't otherwise face until they get their KK, which meant the first day he could really be sent way up the banzuke to Tamawashi and Ura was Day 11, scheduled after Day 9, which was when he was 8-1.  If you say that he might normally face guys up to 15 ranks above him (acknowledging that he would face those below him early on, but would skip approximately as many ranked above him as there were below him to keep the schedules "fair" to their rank), the top opponent would have been Chiyoshoma, which I suppose isn't all that far from Tamawashi and Ura, but I think it does mean that they need that KK clearance before arranging those matches.

The only thing that they really could have done differently was give him Takanosho on Day 13 before Terunofuji Day 14, which would have looked a little more proper in progression and indeed was what I expected them to do, but looking at the big picture that would have meant doing Terunofuji-Takakeisho Day 13 or not at all if they also wanted Abi-Takakeisho at some point.

Edited by Gurowake
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My issue with Abi isn't so much "low ranked maegashira goes on rampage" since anyone can have a good basho (cf Tokushoryu). It's more the fact that he is the first of three makuuchi mainstays that the NSK sent down in the rankings for infractions rather than injury. That means it shouldn't take a crystal ball to realise that you are going to be getting a maegashira challenger for the yusho, if you are putting a sanyaku-calibre rikishi down amongst the double-digit maegashira. IMO the fact that Abi was ex-sanyaku and perfectly healthy ought to have made them a bit more ready to throw him against tougher opposition at the earlier signs of "trouble" - heck, you could even see it as part of their "punishment" in climbing back up the ranks.

In any case, all's well that ends well since Abi failed to prevail against Terunofuji. And I don't really expect Ryuden to be tearing it up in quite the same way since he's not quite to Abi or Asanoyama's standard. But if this time next year or sometime thereabouts, we see Asanoyama in exactly this kind of scenario again, I'll be the first to say I told the NSK so.

On the flip side, thinking about it, there might not be anything too wrong with a sanyaku-calibre rikishi winning a yusho. But then again, doing it because they had gimmes relative to their ability for the first week still feels a bit cheap when the sanyaku and joi have got to scrap with the best of them.

Edited by Seiyashi
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2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

(...conspiracists might argue it's to make Mitakeumi's road to Ozeki easier...) B-)

Mitakeumi's HTH records against each of the Ozeki are effectively even.  So while Takakeisho has clearly been the better of the two forever, I don't think Mitakeumi is really going to be seen by anyone to have a better chance against Shodai than Takakeisho.  I suppose you might argue that Takakeisho has a tsuna run to maybe start with 13 wins, while Shodai is only fighting for Kensho and a small bonus increase, so Takakeisho has more motivation to win.  I guess that might be enough for conspiracy theorists.

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19 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

But if this time next year or sometime thereabouts, we see Asanoyama in exactly this kind of scenario again, I'll be the first to say I told the NSK so.

It may well be that this tournament informs the torikumi makers about what to do in the future.  But it's not like this hasn't happened before - see the baseball betting suspensions where in their basho in Juryo (Aki 2010), Goeido, Miyabiyama, and Toyonoshima all got at least 12 wins.  On their return to Makuuchi (Kyushu 2010), Miyabiyama didn't do particularly well, Goeido had two early losses and then lost to Toyonoshima and got no sanyaku opponents despite winning the rest, while the latter ended up picking up 3 sanyaku Day 12-14 plus M1 Kisenosato Day 15 and only got Hakuho in a playoff.  If it wasn't Hakuho at his prime where he could be expected to win 14 (his longest win streak just having been broken that tournament), Toyonoshima might have won the Yusho without facing Hakuho.

Edited by Gurowake

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Did Abi just fall over? Didn't really see what the winning move by Terunofuji was, to be honest. 

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32 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Did Abi just fall over? Didn't really see what the winning move by Terunofuji was, to be honest. 

He tried a katasukashi on Terunofuji, but Terunofuji didn't quite move forward as he was expected to, being rather firmly planted over his right knee. So Abi sort of swung himself down as a result, since he was placing a lot of effort in trying to force Terunofuji down by the shoulder, and sacrificed his footing in an ultimately futile attempt to win.

Edited by Seiyashi
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1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

As has been noted many times, Kaisei's hinkaku is impressive - I think vs other opponents Chiyonokuni's slap and kick fest would've drawn many a dirty stare instead of an immediate helping hand without the slightest look of agitation. 

I often think that Kaisei is too nice for his own good! Good win for him today though.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:
3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

(...conspiracists might argue it's to make Mitakeumi's road to Ozeki easier...) B-)

Mitakeumi's HTH records against each of the Ozeki are effectively even.  So while Takakeisho has clearly been the better of the two forever, I don't think Mitakeumi is really going to be seen by anyone to have a better chance against Shodai than Takakeisho.  I suppose you might argue that Takakeisho has a tsuna run to maybe start with 13 wins, while Shodai is only fighting for Kensho and a small bonus increase, so Takakeisho has more motivation to win.  I guess that might be enough for conspiracy theorists.

Speaking as a conspiracy theorist (UK Tinfoil Hat Chapter 118), who thinks that Chris Sumo doesn't go nearly far enough... I think that the shadowy powers-that-be within the NSK (controlled by the Illuminati, obviously) really want a third Japanese ozeki and that Mitakeumi is the only available candidate. Remember that Hakkaku was born exactly six months before the assassination of JFK (another three letter initialisation ending in "K") and has never been able to explain his whereabouts on the day the shots were fired. And Mitakeumi was born on December 25 at Agematsu which is at exactly the same latitude at Area 51 so he is almost certainly some kind of Alien Antichrist.

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One fact that shouldn't be overlooked is that Monday is Terunofuji's 30th birthday.

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6 hours ago, Adil said:

Interesting comment from Wakanohana: He said that even though there have been some Mongolian yokozuna recently, Terunofuji is the one who does the most "Japanese" style sumo among them. 

Perhaps because he went to high school in Japan?  He had a good dose of Japanese Sumo culture in high school before the pros.  All the other Mongolian Yokozuna were fresh from the mainland.

Edited by Gurowake

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3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:
6 hours ago, Adil said:

Interesting comment from Wakanohana: He said that even though there have been some Mongolian yokozuna recently, Terunofuji is the one who does the most "Japanese" style sumo among them. 

Perhaps because he went to high school in Japan?  He had a good dose of Japanese Sumo culture in high school before the pros.  All the other Mongolian Yokozuna were fresh from the mainland.

Interesting comment especially since Hakuho's style has been compared to Takanohana's before. I wonder what Wakanohana considers to be "Japanese"-style sumo, especially as I'd say Japanese-style sumo is more and more oshi-oriented nowadays.

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19 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Speaking as a conspiracy theorist (UK Tinfoil Hat Chapter 118), who thinks that Chris Sumo doesn't go nearly far enough... I think that the shadowy powers-that-be within the NSK (controlled by the Illuminati, obviously) really want a third Japanese ozeki and that Mitakeumi is the only available candidate. Remember that Hakkaku was born exactly six months before the assassination of JFK (another three letter initialisation ending in "K") and has never been able to explain his whereabouts on the day the shots were fired. And Mitakeumi was born on December 25 at Agematsu which is at exactly the same latitude at Area 51 so he is almost certainly some kind of Alien Antichrist.

...what?

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11 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Interesting comment especially since Hakuho's style has been compared to Takanohana's before. I wonder what Wakanohana considers to be "Japanese"-style sumo, especially as I'd say Japanese-style sumo is more and more oshi-oriented nowadays.

This is the context: He was breaking down Teru's bout with Abi, and he spoke about how Teru used his legs (and then one leg only) at the tawara to avoid being pushed out. He then remarked that this is something that we don't get to see from Japanese rikishi these days, and he followed that by saying that Teru's style is the most "Japanese" among the Mongolian yokozuna.

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

How is Tamawashi so hopeless against Mitakeumi? It doesn't make sense...

There's an eleven minute video on youtube, that might you might find entertaining:  "Mitakeumi vs Tamawashi I Mitakeumi's Dominance | Head to Head All Bouts I Sumo Highlights"

It really seems like Tamawashi has to perform close to perfect to win against him. I really don't know either.

Mitakeumi starts in a compact position, close to the middle and seems to rise up at an angle that often leads to an advantageous or equal outcome at the initial charge. Mitakeumi excels with the double hand inside grip if that's available. It looks like he can push back just as hard. Then, whenever he's overpowered and driven back, he just seems to find the right counter move to win the bout. Quite bewildering.

How?

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Maybe I missed the news... Is it possible that Abi-Takanosho bout tomorrow decides the Fighting Spirit prize winner? Of course usually Abi's performance would be enough already, but this case is a bit special.

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39 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Speaking as a conspiracy theorist (UK Tinfoil Hat Chapter 118), who thinks that Chris Sumo doesn't go nearly far enough... I think that the shadowy powers-that-be within the NSK (controlled by the Illuminati, obviously) really want a third Japanese ozeki and that Mitakeumi is the only available candidate. Remember that Hakkaku was born exactly six months before the assassination of JFK (another three letter initialisation ending in "K") and has never been able to explain his whereabouts on the day the shots were fired. And Mitakeumi was born on December 25 at Agematsu which is at exactly the same latitude at Area 51 so he is almost certainly some kind of Alien Antichrist.

Nothing to see here, guys, just a Latitudinarian falling for the midwit math foisted on him by the NSK stooges, when the real string-pullers are the Ag Industry barons who control Sumo through the koenkai system and through their gifts of food and rice to the heya; dang it, all that salt throwing should tip off anybody with half a brain.  As for the Rise of the Mongolians, just watch those hicks scarf down rice and you can see a whole phalanx of ambassadors for Japanese products into Central Asia.  And a certain controversial Youtuber is compensated well for throwing people off the scent with simple 1D Chess conspiracy theories.  I could say so much more, but I have relatives in the fish-processing industry who wouldn't last long if I did.

/s

[Oh, yeah, also "Go Mitakeumi!(Heart...)]

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7 minutes ago, Taliesin said:

Maybe I missed the news... Is it possible that Abi-Takanosho bout tomorrow decides the Fighting Spirit prize winner? Of course usually Abi's performance would be enough already, but this case is a bit special.

Perhaps Abi is already a shoe-in (shō-in?) for the kantōshō and Takanoshō for the shukunshō. Last bashō, Daieishō won the shukunshō from a similar position with a 10-5.

Edit: In before "Are you shō about that?"

Edited by rokudenashi
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But Daieisho got a really cool kinboshi that tournament. I will be a bit surprised if shukunsho is given at all this time.

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3 minutes ago, Taliesin said:

But Daieisho got a really cool kinboshi that tournament. I will be a bit surprised if shukunsho is given at all this time.

Thank you for mentioning that, I had forgotten about the kinboshi. How about both getting the kantoshō then, if Takanoshō wins? I can't see Abi not picking up a prize at this stage.

Edited by rokudenashi

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Yes, it's possible. It's just that, as mentioned already, Abi was fighting from low rank to where he was demoted for reasons having nothing to do with real ability, so rewarding him too much may be wrong. So when I saw him paired against Takanosho I wondered whether it's a one last test for him. Maybe I am overthinking.

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1 minute ago, rokudenashi said:

Thank you for mentioning that, I had forgotten about the kinboshi. How about both getting the kantoshō then, if Takanoshō wins? I can't see Abi not picking up a prize at this stage.

I won't pretend to understand the subtle meanings associated with these prizes, but if Abi didn't display Fighting Spirit this basho, maybe they should call it something else.

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To briefly return to the subject of Takanoshō's questionable eligibility for a shukunshō - to his credit he has beaten 3 san'yaku in this tournament (Shōdai, Meisei, Kiribayama), whereas Daieishō only managed one other san'yaku victory (Meisei) outside of his kinboshi. Of course the kinboshi comes with far more significance than beating an Ōzeki.

Time to go check the historical precedents... and having done so, based on the past few years, every hiramaku shukunshō recipient did indeed defeat a yokozuna, which Takanoshō has not accomplished. So I'm now inclined to believe he won't get it, even with an 11-4. 

19 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

I won't pretend to understand the subtle meanings associated with these prizes, but if Abi didn't display Fighting Spirit this basho, maybe they should call it something else.

Indeed. He has fought fiercely this basho, which rather conveniently matches the description of the prize (然とう), doesn't it!

Edited by rokudenashi
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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

While we are losing one of the active brother combos in Grand Sumo (perhaps the most colourful of the bunch), there is some good news on the brothers-in-mawashi front.  No doubt, some keen-eyed Forum member has already mentioned the fact that come January, Wakamotoharu (28) will be joining his younger brother, Wakatakakage (26) in the Top Division!  Sadly, the eldest of the three Shimida brothers, Kitaharima (35), is languishing down in Makushita.  Wakamotoharu has looked good this tournament.  Let's see if he has the necessary skill and will to stay there...


I'm afraid you've gotten some siblings mixed up - the oldest Onami brother is Wakatakamoto, now 29 but as a fan specifically of his I still harbour hopes that he'll reach Juryo someday.

Kitaharima does indeed have a younger brother, Tatsunoumi.

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