Akinomaki

Kyushu 2021 discussion

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Would also like to know what Takakeisho said to Takayasu. Maybe “You like that?” or something similar. He didn’t like the harite, that’s for sure. Be surprised of no one spoke to him about his little outburst,  perhaps his Oyakata. 

Love Ura, but that arm raising should remain  down in collegiate sumo. Unbecoming, however endearing some might find such displays.

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Congratulations Terunofuji! 6 yusho is already a very respectable total from the new Y. He’s filling those big shoes admirably on all counts. Hoshoryu vs Kiribayama was probably fight of the day, IMO. Terutsuyoshi getting faceplanted was also standout. Surprised no monoii call on that finish. Would have liked to see multiple camera angles. Anyway, we’ll see a massively bruised face on the lad tomorrow. 

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Since Kaio had 5 yusho, 6 is true Yokozuna territory (Showingoff...)

5 years ago he was getting yorikiri'd by Kotoyuki, now he's chasing dai-yokhood

Edited by Katooshu
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I still worry about the big man's knees, but he seems more stable and measured these days, and on this form is a level above. Double digit yusho are certainly looking like a real possibility, when just over a year ago he only had 1 top division title to his name

Edited by Katooshu

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31 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

If he wins Hatsu 2022 as well, he will match Tachiyama and Tochigiyama for winning three tournaments immediately after promotion, and he will stand alone if he wins Haru. 

"If", not "when"? ;-)

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When has been the last time a Yokozuna did not meet all Ozeki available (barring kyujo)?

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26 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

That's 76 wins in the calendar year for Terunofuji. In the last 30 years only Hakuho, Asashoryu and Takanohana have beaten that.

Best wait until tomorrow's potential/likely win and replace 76 with 77 for an official total.  

The achievement is daunting for Harumafuji and Kakuryu fans, since those two recent Yokozuna were not able to match or better it.  All hail Terunofuji.

(Of course, fans like me can lick our wounds and argue that the competition Teru faced in 2021 was weaker than existed in previous years.  Terunofuji only had to fight Hakuho once in 2021 – in fact he only faced Hakuho once since his amazing comeback – and he lost!)

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25 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(Of course, fans like me can lick our wounds and argue that the competition Teru faced in 2021 was weaker than existed in previous years.  Terunofuji only had to fight Hakuho once in 2021 – in fact he only faced Hakuho once since his amazing comeback – and he lost!)

To be fair, Hakuho is only 6 possible bouts out of 90. It's the cumulative effect of the Yoshikazes, Kotoshogikus, Tochiozans, Goeidos, and each other that Hakuho's co-yokozuna had to put up with, and arguably they - not Hakuho alone - were the stiffer competition compared to today's joi, many of whom are still sort of finding their legs (looking at you, Hoshoryu, Takanosho, Wakatakakage, Kiribayama, Meisei).

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41 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:
1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

If he wins Hatsu 2022 as well, he will match Tachiyama and Tochigiyama for winning three tournaments immediately after promotion, and he will stand alone if he wins Haru. 

"If", not "when"? ;-)

I'm not ruling out the Isegahama Fukuoka Koenkai having dosed the chanko somehow, although you'd think Takarafuji and Terutsuyoshi would be doing better if that's the case. (Laughing...)

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1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Double digits! Mita ozeki run is on! :-D

You joke, but yeah, why not? 10-5 is a foundation. Shodai isn’t a huge obstacle to 11-4 either.

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11 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:
38 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(Of course, fans like me can lick our wounds and argue that the competition Teru faced in 2021 was weaker than existed in previous years.  Terunofuji only had to fight Hakuho once in 2021 – in fact he only faced Hakuho once since his amazing comeback – and he lost!)

To be fair, Hakuho is only 6 possible bouts out of 90. It's the cumulative effect of the Yoshikazes, Kotoshogikus, Tochiozans, Goeidos, and each other that Hakuho's co-yokozuna had to put up with, and arguably they - not Hakuho alone - were the stiffer competition compared to today's joi, many of whom are still sort of finding their legs (looking at you, Hoshoryu, Takanosho, Wakatakakage, Kiribayama, Meisei).

Forgive me for not using "e.g." when singling out Hakuho as a (the prime) example of stiffer competition.  I definitely wasn't ruling out the others!  

But if you assume that Hakuho would have taken four or five of their other potential 2021 H2Hs, then Teru's annual win total would be a somewhat less impressive 72-73.

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12 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:
1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Double digits! Mita ozeki run is on! :-D

You joke, but yeah, why not? 10-5 is a foundation. Shodai isn’t a huge obstacle to 11-4 either.

Hell, Shodai started a run with 8-7. Granted, he finished it with a 13-2 Y, but it's not impossible...

5 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

But if you assume that Hakuho would have taken four or five of their other potential 2021 H2Hs, then Teru's annual win total would be a somewhat less impressive 72-73.

In terms of relative competition, not any less impressive: this year, the next best win total is Ura's 59 (?!) and even Abi, who spent 3 basho as toriteki, is on the short list of 50 wins and above (the other two are Shodai and Mitakeumi, with 52 and 54 wins each). He's head, shoulders, and pecs above his competition.

And even if you take away the hypothetical losses against Hakuho, breaching 70 is still an impressive achievement. Only 30 rikishi have ever scored more than 70 wins in a calendar year: most of them are yokozuna although the notable exceptions are Kotokaze, Takanonami, and Wakashimazu. Kakuryu only managed it once in his career, in his promotion year in 2014 with 71 wins, and Harumafuji and Kisenosato never managed it at all.

If sorted by order, then Terunofuji is either joint 19th or joint 26th (depending on whether he wins tomorrow) all time for wins in a calendar year. If he loses to Hakuho for 72-73 then he's still either joint 47th or 41st, around where previous luminaries like Terukuni, Kitanofuji, Futabayama and Kitanoumi have landed. Quite frankly, Terunofuji with this one calendar year has managed to drag himself up to par - at least as far as records are concerned - with a lot of strongish above-average yokozuna of the past, and that's before taking into account the massive achievement that is rehabilitating himself back from Jonidan.

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I'm intrigued they deviated from the standard schedule Terunofuji-Shodai / Takakeisho-Mitakeumi even though there's no yusho race anymore.

(...conspiracists might argue it's to make Mitakeumi's road to Ozeki easier...) B-)

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30 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

In terms of relative competition, not any less impressive: this year, the next best win total is Ura's 59 (?!) and even Abi, who spent 3 basho as toriteki, is on the short list of 50 wins and above (the other two are Shodai and Mitakeumi, with 52 and 54 wins each). He's head, shoulders, and pecs above his competition.

Surely we only count makuuchi in this comparison, which leaves Ura and Abi at 27 and 12 wins respectively.

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Somewhat overlooked with everything else going on, but both M1s, Wakatakakage and Daieisho, have avoided makekoshi for five and four days straight now respectively. From 2-7 and 3-7, they’re now 7-7 and face Darwin matches tomorrow against Tobizaru (7-7) and Ishiura (7-7), with sanyaku returns as their incentives. Well played.

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Congratulations to Terunofuji on no. 6. I hope he can make it a zensho tomorrow.

Abi gave it his best shot today - and it was a good one - but he finally lost control of his footing. That used to happen far more frequently than it has this time, so I'm seeing that as a definite improvement.
I wonder if he'll be up for a sansho; i.e. has the press forgiven him?

How is Tamawashi so hopeless against Mitakeumi? It doesn't make sense...
Anyhow, double-digit wins drags us kicking and screaming into ozeki-run-discussion territory. If he makes it 11 tomorrow, I reckon 12 in January would get him the nod, because 32 was good enough for Kotoshogiku, Kisenosato, Goeido and all the rest who put in a consistent long-term showing in sanyaku. 
Not going to happen, of course. This is Mitakeumi after all... 

Does Chiyoshoma read this forum? He's consistently gone for the belt at every opportunity since that's what I suggested he do on day 2 or 3!

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1 hour ago, Kashunowaka said:
1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

In terms of relative competition, not any less impressive: this year, the next best win total is Ura's 59 (?!) and even Abi, who spent 3 basho as toriteki, is on the short list of 50 wins and above (the other two are Shodai and Mitakeumi, with 52 and 54 wins each). He's head, shoulders, and pecs above his competition.

Surely we only count makuuchi in this comparison, which leaves Ura and Abi at 27 and 12 wins respectively.

Which goes to show even further how bad - or at least inconsistent - the rest of makuuchi is being, since they're struggling to average a kachi-koshi across a single calendar year (50/6 = ~8+). Even Takakeisho, who's arguably the closer of the two ozeki to any sort of tsunatori form, although he's also been more limited by injury than most.

In contrast, taking a sample of 2012 (Harumafuji's promotion year), 8 rikishi got more than 50 wins: the four yokozuna (although two of them were still ozeki), Goeido, Tochiozan, Ikioi, and Chiyotairyu (the last two spending some time in juryo). 2014, Kakuryu's promotion year, had 10: Hakuho, Kisenosato, Kakuryu, Goeido, Tochiozan, Terunofuji, Sokokurai, Sadanoumi, Tochinoshin, and Ichinojo (the last five had part of their records in juryo, and the last two had part of their records in makushita!). That at least somewhat fortifies Amamaniac's conclusion that makuuchi in past years was just more competitive.

Edited by Seiyashi

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Congrats to Terunofuji. I see an undisputable downward trend regarding dame-oshi. Seems like he embraces hinkaku. Makes him much more likable.

Huge respect for Abi, not many manage to bring Terunofuji that close to defeat. In all Abi was very convincing this basho. Future Ozeki i say.

Edited by Benihana
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3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Terunofuji draws level with Kakuryu and will surely surpass him in no time.

Anyone want to revisit their prediction here?

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/40885-how-many-yusho-will-terunofuji-win-in-his-career/

Can't even remember what I picked even after reading my comment. I'm guessing I put 10-11, although I could also have put 8-9.

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As for yusho arasoi, all that remains for the final day is the Jonidan championship, which if I'm not mistaken will involve a playoff between Kaiho and Yurikisho.  Interestingly, everything else has already been decided.  

Sad that the wheels feel off of Oho's yusho train in Juryo, but also pleased that Ichiyamamoto proved his worth, and will in all probability find himself back up in the Top Division to start 2022.  (Clappingwildly...)

Spoiler

He dropped from M15e to J4w with a 4-11 record in September.  He is currently looking at a 12-3 or 13-2 record which bodes well. 

 

Edited by Amamaniac

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1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

As for yusho araiso,

Only 2 to speak of, unless you mean arasoi rather than Araiso...

Edited by Seiyashi
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Just now, Seiyashi said:

Only 1 to speak of, unless you mean arasoi rather than Araiso...

Soi I did... :-P

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