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Swami

More Takatoriki nonsense.

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3 hours ago, Swami said:

Almost right on cue, Chris has posted another new video today "Kasuganishiki - the man who knew too much".

Swami

Of course he knew too much - he (and his wife) pretty much orchestrated the whole yaocho thing, which, as a reminder, was mostly about giving Juryo bottom- feeders wins so they remain sekitori with all that it entails. He was selling tee-shirts at bargain prices as well..

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Of course he knew too much - he (and his wife) pretty much orchestrated the whole yaocho thing, which, as a reminder, was mostly about giving Juryo bottom- feeders wins so they remain sekitori with all that it entails. He was selling tee-shirts at bargain prices as well..

Thanks for the summary. I was trying to read the whole thread from ten years ago, but I got stuck in the middle (too many pages). I guess sumo wasn't destroyed after all, like Peterao said.

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The videos are being posted thick and fast, Takatoriki now claiming that Asashoryu was screwed - according to his ex-manager.

Swami

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40 minutes ago, Swami said:

The videos are being posted thick and fast, Takatoriki now claiming that Asashoryu was screwed - according to his ex-manager.

Swami

More old hat, considering I vaguely recall Asashoryu alleging as much in the immediate aftermath of his retirement (I assume you're referring to that rather than any of his yusho being fixed).

I wonder whether something has happened - or is going to happen - prompting Takatoriki to push content at a faster rate. It certainly feels like it.

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21 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

More old hat, considering I vaguely recall Asashoryu alleging as much in the immediate aftermath of his retirement (I assume you're referring to that rather than any of his yusho being fixed).

I wonder whether something has happened - or is going to happen - prompting Takatoriki to push content at a faster rate. It certainly feels like it.

F&B business going under so he switching to YouTube?

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1 hour ago, Seregost said:

Thanks for the summary. I was trying to read the whole thread from ten years ago, but I got stuck in the middle (too many pages). I guess sumo wasn't destroyed after all, like Peterao said.

Those were the days..

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39 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

More old hat, considering I vaguely recall Asashoryu alleging as much in the immediate aftermath of his retirement (I assume you're referring to that rather than any of his yusho being fixed).

I wonder whether something has happened - or is going to happen - prompting Takatoriki to push content at a faster rate. It certainly feels like it.

No mention of the yusho issues yet, though that will probably get another airing in another video.

 

Swami

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RE: the NSK suing Takatoriki for defamation: doesn't Takatoriki claim that's exactly what they are doing? At least according to this Chris video: https://youtu.be/Gy7GeV9YesU?t=345 (timestamped with the relevant section). Thing is with him, he probably welcomes it, since it shows they're aware of his videos, and can be used for a sort of "they're coming after me because I'm telling the TRUTH maaan!" angle on things.

The video that inspired this thread is more than just saying that someone has passed away which we were unaware of (and the usual "everyone was match-fixing but me" protest from Takatoriki); Chris' video on the topic says his death was "suicide; or made to look like one", implying he may have been murdered for his role in the match fixing affair.
I got the impression the angle was that his sister approached Takatoriki (via some other sympathetic currently serving oyakata) with a tape of an interview from 2011 in which she states that even back then, Kasuganishiki was afraid for his life. The fact he's now dead and "made to look like [suicide]" was mentioned seems to imply that his sister doesn't believe his death is a suicide despite that being the police's findings (thus possibly implying they're somehow in on the act as well), and the fact he was afraid for his life 10 years ago shows that this isn't something she's invented in her grief at the death of her brother (though I think that's exactly what it is).

There is no reporting that Kasuganishiki passed away however many months back, but unless someone tells the press about it, how are they to know? People often pass away and it can be months or even years until the public hears about it because the family didn't release the information to allow them some privacy, which I totally understand. I'm sure that sadly he has passed away, because if he shows up alive tomorrow then it would utterly ruin Takatoriki's credibility (what little he has anyway), and it would also seem that his sister is under the assumption he's dead too, so that part I do believe.

The real issue here is that Chris continues to make videos about Takatoriki, which gives him more credence and exposure in the eyes of the English-speaking fans who, in many cases, get the entirety of their sumo news from Chris. It's clear that most of Chris's news is from the same newspapers that everyone else gets their stories from, so if I read the same thing on NIkkan and then see Chris reporting it, I can be sure at least that much is true. But this conspiracy theory Takatoriki stuff is tiring and giving people who exclusively watch him and consume no other sumo media (aside from the basho itself presumably) the wrong idea of things.

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I'm still very sceptical, simply because no other reliable source has reported it. It's been days now - sure Nikkan or other media that cover sumo would have been able to establish by now if it were true.Presumably there must be a death certificate that a reporter could track down.  

Edited by ryafuji

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3 hours ago, Hidenotora said:

a tape of an interview from 2011 in which she states that even back then, Kasuganishiki was afraid for his life. The fact he's now dead and "made to look like [suicide]" was mentioned seems to imply that his sister doesn't believe his death is a suicide

Man, that's some Corleone-like 4D chess there; Don Oyakata waits for the buzz to die down for ten years before sending a button man to whack Kasuganishiki.

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At what point can all the alleged rikishi sue Takatoriki for defamation?

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As I posted before, any proof that loss of business occurred from Takatoriki's statements/videos is enough, even if the defaming statements are true.

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4 hours ago, TakanohanaFan said:

I'd like the promised sequel about this Kasuganishiki affair that Chris promised to us. Chris is not providing it.

 

 

Yes, Chris is not getting that juicy content he's been wanting

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16 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:
5 hours ago, TakanohanaFan said:

I'd like the promised sequel about this Kasuganishiki affair that Chris promised to us. Chris is not providing it.

 

 

Yes, Chris is not getting that juicy content he's been wanting

He's had his hands full with basho coverage and now running around after Miyagino and Hakuho. Guess we'll see it when he has more free time on his hands between basho. There's also that interview with Takagenji.

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Takatouriki had things to say  about his son Ouhou.  "You're the great Taihou's grandson- you gotta do better. Don't aim for what I did- aim for Taihou. The way things are looking, I'm not sure you'll even eclipse my achievements. I find it hard to watch his bouts, he irritates me. He is too high. He should train more and learn how to come from under," he said. He did state at the onset that he is not in touch with his children. Still he is rooting for him. "Every parent has feelings for his son. If he can, I hope he becomes stronger  and gives us good memories.." he summed.

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

He did state at the onset that he is not in touch with his children. 

This is a bit sad. It's probably been gone over already, but is this due to the NSK fallout or something more?

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I find it hard to watch his bouts, he irritates me. He is too high.

Well, he is not wrong about this part. He is starting to look like Kaisei with his version A and B, but Oho is mostly on B

 

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47 minutes ago, Godango said:

This is a bit sad. It's probably been gone over already, but is this due to the NSK fallout or something more?

Probably more likely due to the divorce, which while part of the fallout is also its own complication. 

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Posted (edited)

There's obviously room for improvement, but Oho's done very well for a 22-year-old. I think many people have overly ambitious expectations for promising youngsters. Three bouts into his makuuchi debut there was already talk of him becoming ozeki soon. People don't want to be patient and give young rikishi chances to develop; it's always hype to the max right away. Then when they don't meet those extreme standard fans get disappointed, even though the rikishi in question have actually done quite well.

There's even disappointment in Hoshoryu lately for 'only' managing 8-7 in his pair of sanyaku basho. I guess when you expect a guy to be ozeki at 22 and to storm through upper maegashira and lower sanyaku, that would be pretty disappointing, even if he's the 2nd or 3rd youngest in makuuchi, already KKing as komusubi, and one of the very best technicians in the sport.

It's like a revolving door of overrating rikishi and then underrating them. 

Edited by Katooshu
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

It's like a revolving door of overrating rikishi and then underrating them. 

I don't think it helps that the older generation of rikishi aren't providing stable cover for them. If, for instance, Asanoyama had not been demoted, Mitakeumi and Shōdai were more stable, and Terunofuji was still kicking ass and taking names, attention wouldn't be focused as heavily on the youngsters to make the step up, and they would have had the time to develop relatively shielded from the media glare.

Edited by Seiyashi
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

There's obviously room for improvement, but Oho's done very well for a 22-year-old. I think many people have overly ambitious expectations for promising youngsters.

100%. Even in the case of Takakeisho who absolutely delivered on the hype, now we're beating him up because he's not a Yokozuna yet and has been a bit patchy. Nevermind the fact that at 25 he's our best, most consistent ozeki.

Edited by Godango
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3 hours ago, Katooshu said:

There's obviously room for improvement, but Oho's done very well for a 22-year-old. I think many people have overly ambitious expectations for promising youngsters. Three bouts into his makuuchi debut there was already talk of him becoming ozeki soon.

That's true, but it's worth remembering also that Oho & Hoshoryu possibly arrived as two of the most hyped recruits in recent years anyway. So it's not like he showed up in the top division as a young guy and people wanted to crown him (like for example, Onosho or Hokutofuji) - he's one of the very few recruits that has literally been of public interest since his jonokuchi debut. A number of hardcore fans in Sumo Forum will be following any number of promising recruits, especially those who come from college, but we are the extreme rare bunch. These two, simply due to who they are, have had the public spotlight on them from the jump (with one moving a bit faster than the other as is normal). We can obviously take most of what Takatoriki says with a Terutsuyoshi sized heap of salt, but when your dad (himself a yusho winner) is saying in the media that the expectation is for you to "be more like Taiho," the bar's long been set at a different level to his peers, rightly or wrongly.

3 hours ago, Katooshu said:

There's even disappointment in Hoshoryu lately for 'only' managing 8-7 in his pair of sanyaku basho

It feels to me that the hype train is very much full steam ahead on Hoshoryu, but the disappointment may just be that the performance/results are not congruent with his behaviour/demeanour..... 

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It's all very fickle altogether, not only when it involves rikishi like Hoshoryu and Oho who have the added baggage of high-profile ancestors. When Oho was stuck in high makushita for a bit people were suddenly all about started-one-year-later Roga even though he'd not actually shown anything better yet either, then both hype trains reversed course again nearly overnight after Oho did break through to juryo and Roga didn't (and hasn't, to date). I'm not even sure I'd call that overrating/underrating them, because that implies there's an actual thought process behind it. It's mostly just people mindlessly following the herd.

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I was a fan of Takatoriki as a rikishi but I've no truck with him as a YouTube conspiracy theorist, so what surprises me is that the above just appears to be some very sensible advice for his estranged son.

You can call it a hype train if you like, but I believe it's only human nature for fans to have higher expectations of rikishi with pedigree. It may be unrealistic in many cases, but I remember what it was like when the Hanada brothers turned up in 1988. All those expectations were met, and even exceeded in Takanohana's case...

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