Seiyashi

Aki Basho 2021 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers!)

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15 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Presumably with Hakuho at Yokozuna-Ozeki then, since Shodai would be the only active Ozeki on the banzuke. That would, I believe, be a first for the GOAT.

I thought the role would fall on Terunofuji as Hak will still be ranked Yokozuna East next basho. 

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16 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

I thought the role would fall on Terunofuji as Hak will still be ranked Yokozuna East next basho. 

I'm guessing the "rank freeze" we're anticipating for Miyagino won't extend to keeping Hakuho at YE.

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7 hours ago, Sakura said:

However, that doesn't isolate matches versus Maegashira only.

If a sanyaku wrestler faces anyone other than a maegashira, they face another sanyaku member, so they definitely go 1-1 for that match.  Those can simply be counted and removed from the tally if that's what we were looking at, but getting that on a per basho basis to go along with your query would be a bit of work.  It's at least a start.  I focused on the overall record of the sanyaku, not any individual (or multiple individuals) performing poorly.

Edited by Gurowake

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50 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

I thought the role would fall on Terunofuji as Hak will still be ranked Yokozuna East next basho. 

I don’t think the rank freeze will be quite that literal, especially if Terunofuji wins or puts up big numbers. Yokozuna never lose their rank anyway, so I doubt the freeze really had them in mind.

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1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:
55 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

I thought the role would fall on Terunofuji as Hak will still be ranked Yokozuna East next basho. 

I don’t think the rank freeze will be quite that literal, especially if Terunofuji wins or puts up big numbers. Yokozuna never lose their rank anyway, so I doubt the freeze really had them in mind.

For comparison's sake, Enho had to go down one rank in March to make the Haru banzuke work, after all the COVID-related sitouts in January. So the rank freeze isn't absolute, but keeps the rikishi roughly where they would have been recognising that a kyujo due to COVID isn't their choice. That doesn't really apply to yokozuna since nothing of substance attaches to the yokozuna ordering anyway, so yeah, Hakuho probably goes Y1wYO if Takakeisho falls this basho.

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15 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Or if you have another train to catch. When I was at Nagoya, I only managed to get a ticket when I was supposed to be in Tokyo by that day, so I had to avoid that congestion at all costs to get to Tokyo at a reasonable time (bearing in mind there's still the commute from the Dolphins Arena to Nagoya station proper).

But if I ever get to go to the Kokugikan when a honbasho is on, yeah, I'm definitely going to hang around (hopefully in a masuseki).

If it's that rare an occasion, you would stay and watch. Once you are used to be at the kokugikan two times each year like me, your preferences change to make it a pleasant experience, as much as possible.

I commute from around Kashiwa, most foreigners to watch would be staying in Tokyo. And they usually appear after lunch. To avoid the morning rush, I usually am at the venue at a bit past 11a.m., to get my dinner by 19:30p.m., I have to leave early.

I usually commit sins of much greater disrespect than skipping the yumitori.

To get my second serving of chanko, I rush to the sub floor just before handing out the chanko stops at 16a.m. This means, I watch the makuuchi dohyo-iri, my favourite, but skip the yokozuna dohyo-iri.

This is all moot in Corona times, a pleasant day at the basho is impossible now, I don't think I will come to the kokugikan under the present conditions, even if I have the chance to be in Japan again next Natsu.

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It's turning out to be a rotten start for Hidenoumi: he got poked in the eye on day 1 and today he got shoved out after stopping for a matta-that-wasn't.

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Not sure why Ura-Onosho wasn't a second matta. Ura's hand wasn't anywhere near down when Onosho charged. 

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NHK knows how to bore the spectators. Repeating most of the very long Takayasu bout, the boring parts, and then just for an instant again the decisive moment, no extra angle, nothing. Instead Kiribiyama rejoicing in slomo.

 

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Well, it's not looking good for Takakeisho, is it? From talk of a possible promotion push going into last basho to likely Ozekiwake at the next.

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Wait. Aminishiki still hasn´t had his danpatsu-shiki ? Or am I confusing him ?

 

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Hoshoryu recovered well against Mitakeumi's slapdown attempts, but succumbed to the bullrush afterwards. Uncle's not gonna be happy about that.

And credit to Takakeisho for attempting beltless yorikiri, but he definitely didn't look sharp, and got as good as he gave in terms of oshi thrusts from Ichinojo.

0-3 as a kadoban ozeki is absolutely terrible. Of all the cases of kadoban ozeki since Nagoya 1969 (i.e. from Kiyokuni's 7-8 at Haru 1970), no one who went 0-3 to start the basho retained their rank:

  • Wakashimazu, 1987.07: went 0-2, gave a fusen to then-sekiwake Asahifuji, and retired.
  • Kirishima, 1992.11: lost his first 4 bouts, won 1, then lost 2 more, gave a fusen, then withdrew (and was duly demoted with a final 1-7-7).

So things are going very badly for Takakeisho and it's not clear how he can turn things around given his lack of form. At least the last two times he was kadoban, he managed to preserve his rank and go on a yusho-hunt the basho after, but that's looking more and more like a pipe dream.

Shodai disposing of Hokutofuji surprisingly easily, and Terunofuji giving Takanosho an almighty shove to end the bout with. Nice try by Takanosho, though.

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2 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

Wait. Aminishiki still hasn´t had his danpatsu-shiki ? Or am I confusing him ?

No sekitori have for ages because of Covid restrictions. They want a crowd in so they can make some money.

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3 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

Wait. Aminishiki still hasn´t had his danpatsu-shiki ? Or am I confusing him ?

 

Nope. COVID-19 kept pushing it back. IIRC it's due after the basho, in October.

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25 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

COVID-19 kept pushing it back. IIRC it's due after the basho, in October.

As if the situation would be any different then... :-|

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42 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

0-3 as a kadoban ozeki is absolutely terrible. Of all the cases of kadoban ozeki since Nagoya 1969 (i.e. from Kiyokuni's 7-8 at Haru 1970), no one who went 0-3 to start the basho retained their rank:

  • Wakashimazu, 1987.07: went 0-2, gave a fusen to then-sekiwake Asahifuji, and retired.
  • Kirishima, 1992.11: lost his first 4 bouts, won 1, then lost 2 more, gave a fusen, then withdrew (and was duly demoted with a final 1-7-7).

Also the final tournaments for Musoyama and Goeido.

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5 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:
50 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

0-3 as a kadoban ozeki is absolutely terrible. Of all the cases of kadoban ozeki since Nagoya 1969 (i.e. from Kiyokuni's 7-8 at Haru 1970), no one who went 0-3 to start the basho retained their rank:

  • Wakashimazu, 1987.07: went 0-2, gave a fusen to then-sekiwake Asahifuji, and retired.
  • Kirishima, 1992.11: lost his first 4 bouts, won 1, then lost 2 more, gave a fusen, then withdrew (and was duly demoted with a final 1-7-7).

Also the final tournaments for Musoyama and Goeido.

Yikes. I see where I goofed in specifying losses rather than wins, forgetting that the DB distinguishes between losses and absences.

Past performance no guarantee of future trends, naturally, but given three out of four retirements, I hope we don't see the end of Takakeisho here and now, although it's hard to tell what more he can do to adapt his fighting style if he seems unwilling to risk injury. 

Worth noting that Kirishima amongst the above four is an anomaly: he fought from the maegashira ranks only because he had difficulty in securing a kabu when his sponsor experienced the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis, so his choice to continue was sort of forced. On the other hand, there are a number of Nishonoseki kabu that are freeing up soon, so Takakeisho should have no issue waiting for them with his 3-year jun-toshiyori privilege if he does indeed decide to retire.

Edited by Seiyashi

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30 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

As if the situation would be any different then... :-|

The situation mightn't have changed much, but the risk assessments have with reasonably working safe management measures. And naturally, the amount of risk that is considered acceptable is a subjective human standard - risk fatigue and all that.

Edited by Seiyashi

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"risk fatigue" - never heard that before. I like it! :-)

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I might have bastardised or copied a phrase, but the idea comes from alert fatigue, which is the phenomenon where designers of systems just chuck all sorts of alerts at the human user, so the user can't tell what is major and what isn't. So they just simply ignore alerts, which means sooner or later a major alert goes unnoticed and ignored to dire consequences.

Risk fatigue - as much as Mad-Eye Moody likes to bark the phrase, we're just not cut out for constant vigilance, which is arguably worse than alert fatigue.

EDIT: ok, at least some one else has also encapsulated the concept, but given that it's in quotes I assume it means it's not a standardised term in the literature.

Edited by Seiyashi
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2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

NHK knows how to bore the spectators. Repeating most of the very long Takayasu bout, the boring parts, and then just for an instant again the decisive moment, no extra angle, nothing. Instead Kiribiyama rejoicing in slomo.

 

That bout was brilliant, and worth the attention.

Takayasu fought well and was incredibly powerful with that inside left in the latter half. But Kiribayama consistently and skillfully denies the outside right grip, and gradually angles his right shoulder into the chest of Takayasu. Both men showed good footwork as numerous attacks and attempts to advance were followed and resisted. It was that lengthy struggle in the centre of the ring which led to the final drive and match-winning pivot.

Edit: I think Takayasu has a decent size/weight advantage on Kiribayama too, which makes it even more difficult for Kiribayama to pull off that sort of lengthy defense.

Edited by Fukuyamada
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11 hours ago, Gurowake said:

If a sanyaku wrestler faces anyone other than a maegashira, they face another sanyaku member, so they definitely go 1-1 for that match.  Those can simply be counted and removed from the tally if that's what we were looking at, but getting that on a per basho basis to go along with your query would be a bit of work.  It's at least a start.  I focused on the overall record of the sanyaku, not any individual (or multiple individuals) performing poorly.

One other issue with my query is that it is not adjusted for size of sanyaku. The performance of the first 2 days feels really bad here to me because the Sanyaku size is small.

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4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Well, it's not looking good for Takakeisho, is it? From talk of a possible promotion push going into last basho to likely Ozekiwake at the next.

He has that deer in the headlights look that Kise had in all the basho after the major injury that ultimately ended it all. He clearly isn't right , can't generate any power, is moving slowly and gingerly. He should go kyujo (but probably won't until he has at least lost five or six)

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Has anyone mentioned how deflated Takakeisho looks? He's lost a lot of mass in his chest and shoulders, and his arms are pretty flabby looking. He obviously wasn't working out between basho and I genuinely wish for him to get treated and bow out safely.

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