Aki Basho 2021 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers!)

[Sakura 1,480]

2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

My cat Bob 

I'm delighted by the idea that a cat is called Bob.

[nagora 88]

13 minutes ago, Sakura said:

I'm delighted by the idea that a cat is called Bob.

I thought there were lots of Bob Cats in America.

[Kotomiyama 165]

4 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Maybe we should institute our own awards. Collectively, we have as much expertise as the guys who award the sansho so why not? We could do it in the polls section. I would suggest we have an award for the best performance by a maegashira who ended up with a MK. I am serious, we could chip in and send the winner a scroll or something.

It is a nice idea indeed. I would love a prize for the best kimarite of the tournament. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,409]

Just now, nagora said:

14 minutes ago, Sakura said:

I'm delighted by the idea that a cat is called Bob.

I thought there were lots of Bob Cats in America.

Bob appreciates the fact that three years after I gave him his name, some people get the joke.

[Tigerboy1966 1,409]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm also wondering based on what I saw today whether his physique is mild kryptonite to less redoubtable yotsu practitioners.

I've been saying for ages that TKS should try to develop a kotenage type counter when an opponent gets one hand on the belt. I'm not saying that it would work all the time but applying the old elbow-snapper once or twice might have some effect as a deterrent.

[Thorbjarn 214]

11 hours ago, Morty said:

Did you hear Cornette talking about this last week, or read the recent article about all Hogan's lies? Or hear it when Hogan first said it back in the day? Regardless, kudos.

Both of the above, kind sir. And thanks! Hogan's lies are outrageous, especially since his true life story is one of amazing success. 

I 'm trying to think how many of the last Basho' s were decided on senshuraku since this is another one. I'm certain Terunofuji will take it, though. Shame many of the pursuers fell today. Takakeisho tried hard and survived longer than I expected him to once Teru got a grip. 

Lots of interesting turnarounds, some of the Rikishi I had at certain makekoshi a few days ago suddenly sit at 7-7, like the Eastern Europeans e. g. 

[Amamaniac 2,078]

I am all for Takakeisho developing his yotsuzumo skills, and admittedly he got in a good tug on Terunofuji's belt.

But at the end of the day, Takakeisho is an oshizumo wrestler (pusher-thruster).  That is what his body is suited for.  That is what got him to Ozeki in the first place.  That is what helped him win his second yusho in a playoff against Terunofuji!  

I really feel that this was the wrong time to try out his new yotsu skills: (a) All four of his previous wins against Terunofuji were oshidashi (except for one tsukiotoshi); and (b) Terunofuji's only losses in the tournament to date were the result of oshi-style attacks.  More to the point, the wrestlers that upset the New Yokozuna did so by making sure that Terunofuji did not get his left hand on their mawashi.  

What then does Takakeisho do?  He turns his back on his "own brand" of sumo, one that has a proven track record, and then perhaps inadvertently makes it easy for Terunofuji to get that left-hand grip after Takakeisho moves in close and establishes his own inside right-hand grip.  With Takakeisho's short arms, it was just too easy for Terunofuji to get the outside left-hand grip.  And despite having his arm in the outside position, Terunofuji rarely loses once he gets in that position.  He's just too big and too strong.

You can call it a ballsy attempt at introducing an element of surprise, or you can call it misguided, ... or both.  

[Reonito 1,382]

10 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Shodai has not been matched against either Takakeisho or Mitakeumi. That KK deserves an asterisk. To me it looks as though both Shodai and TKS are there to just hang on to their rank until a proper ozeki emerges (or re-emerges).

They'll be waiting a couple of years at least for Asanoyama, as I don't see Takayasu (much less Tochinoshin) re-emerging.

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

I'm delighted by the idea that a cat is called Bob.

The only one eligible to be called Bob around here is Chiyootori.
(...just watch his mawashi knot before tachiai...)

[specialweek 2 136]

I wonder why the torikumi panel has put M17 and M16 against joi ranked opponents when higher ranked were available?

[Katooshu 3,179]

I'm not sure Takakeisho went in there looking for a yotsu battle. Seemed to me like he was trying to push Teru back, and then fell a bit too far in on one of his attempts and got locked up.

I think he should focus on what he's good at, that being his sumo off the belt, but it's always helpful to have another skill to turn to if you're in a desperate situation where nothing else is available. He has pulled off some good desperation throws (see below), as well as a nice tottari vs Kisenosato. That is the type of thing he should work on if he's going to focus more time on non-oshi skills; trying to initiate and win straight up belt battles won't be very productive IMO.

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Katooshu

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Agreed. I'm not saying Takakeisho should become a yotsu wrestler, I'm saying he needs to add yotsu skills to his repertoire. And yotsu doesn't need to involve mawashi grips - Shodai is perhaps the best example of a yotsu wrestler who doesn't need a mawashi grip. Things like tottari, kubinage, sukuinage, kotenage are perfectly accessible to Takakeisho as, I wouldn't even call it desperation manoeuvres, more like tactical options in case for some reason the oshizumo goes wrong. As it is, I think I saw Terunofuji try to kime him when he got the morozashi, but his physique just wouldn't allow the kime hold to work, which was why I was thinking that he's not exactly very handle-able by the majority of yotsu practitioners. Hell, Takakeisho himself might be able to do a kime hold, although I confess I don't see the physics working in his favour because of his height - might work as a belt breaker though.

As for the wisdom of going into yotsu with Terunofuji, he's KK and out of the yusho race. There's no stakes for him personally, whatsoever. I don't think he sees an obligation on himself to defeat Terunofuji every single time, because he's proven to be capable of it previously and repeatedly, and neither does he have an obligation to make Myogiryu's life easier. So what better time to mix things up - if indeed that was a deliberate choice - than now, when degeiko isn't allowed? I would have agreed that it was daft if he was one behind Terunofuji and was still in contention, but that was moot once he lost to Myogiryu yesterday.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

27 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Things like tottari, kubinage, sukuinage, kotenage are perfectly accessible to Takakeisho

You sure? You have to be able to reach the kubi to nage it.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

You sure? You have to be able to reach the kubi to nage it.

That's the head throw right? Won't it work against someone who does the "grip belt, bury head in opponent" routine, if a tsukiotoshi fails?

[Eikokurai 3,437]

26 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

That's the head throw right? Won't it work against someone who does the "grip belt, bury head in opponent" routine, if a tsukiotoshi fails?

I was just making a joke. :)

[code_number3 694]

2021 September Grand Sumo Tournament Sansho List (Special Prizes)

Shukun-sho(Outstanding Performance Award)

West Maegashira #4 Daieisho(Hayato Takanishi)   (9-5)
Oitekaze Beya Date of Birth: November 10, 1993 (27 years old) Place of Birth: Saitama 2012 January Debut

Kanto-sho(Fighting Spirit Prize)

West Maegashira #6 Onosho(Fumiya Utetsu)  conditionally (10-4)
Onomatsu Beya Date of Birth: July 4, 1996 (25 years old) Place of Birth: Aomori 2013 January Debut

Kanto-sho(Fighting Spirit Prize)

West Maegashira #10 Myogiryu(Yasunari Miyamoto)  conditionally (11-3)
Sakaigawa Beya Date of Birth: October 22, 1986 (34 years old) Place of Birth: Hyogo 2009 May Debut

Gino-sho(Technique Prize)

West Maegashira #10 Myogiryu(Yasunari Miyamoto)   (11-3)
Sakaigawa Beya Date of Birth: October 22, 1986 (34 years old) Place of Birth: Hyogo 2009 May Debut

[Gurowake 4,011]

Hmm, there's usually a tweet for the sansho where it will have the conditions, but I can't find one right now.  Though given it's not the shukun-sho that Myogiryu is conditionally up for, I would say that winning the Yusho is likely not the condition, but I also think 2 sansho for his performance without the Yusho (and the extra win it would require) might be a little too generous for someone with his resume.  Tochiozan and Tochinoshin got zero sansho for 12 wins as a maegashira several years ago.

[Akinomaki 40,030]

13 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Hmm, there's usually a tweet for the sansho where it will have the conditions, but I can't find one right now.  Though given it's not the shukun-sho that Myogiryu is conditionally up for, I would say that winning the Yusho is likely not the condition, but I also think 2 sansho for his performance without the Yusho (and the extra win it would require) might be a little too generous for someone with his resume.  Tochiozan and Tochinoshin got zero sansho for 12 wins as a maegashira several years ago.

NHK announced the kantosho conditions. For Myogiryu the yusho, for Onosho just a win.

[Katooshu 3,179]

Well, now it's a sure thing Myogiryu won't get the yusho, because it's a natural law of the universe that any sansho he gets must be the gino-sho. Now 6 of them and none of the others!

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Seems a bit harsh to require the yusho when that is out of his hands. Even if he does his part and wins to end 12-3, if Terunofuji also wins, that’s that. It requires Myogiryu to win, Terunofuji to lose and then Myogiryu to win a playoff. That’s a lot of conditionals.

[Katooshu 3,179]

I don't think a 12-3J, with no win over the tournament champ, warrants 2 sansho. If he beats Terunofuji and takes the yusho he'll be more deserving of it.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Katooshu

[Akinomaki 40,030]

Kotoozutsu demoralised Ishizaki with his too early start matta, adding a second one to utterly confuse him and then overpowered him in the proper bout.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

I don't think a 12-3J, with no win over the tournament champ, warrants 2 sansho. If he beats Terunofuji and takes the yusho he'll be more deserving of it.

I guess it comes down to framing. Seen as an ultimatum, it appears harsh, but you can also view the kanto as a bonus, i.e. it’s something to be given, not taken away, if that makes sense.

That said, 12-3JGK isn’t completely without precedent. Toyonoshima in Hatsu 2007 is an example. He didn’t face Asashoryu and only met one sanyaku opponent, Sekiwake Kotomitsuki. Homasho also did it the basho before: 12-3JGK without facing Asashoryu and losing his only bout with a sanyaku, Ozeki Tochiazuma. They must have been more generous in those months.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Tigerboy1966 1,409]

Prizes are often denied to wrestlers who are fighting well below their "natural" level.  With Myogiryu he was more or less in the right spot. His peak was a long time ago.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Prizes are often denied to wrestlers who are fighting well below their "natural" level.  With Myogiryu he was more or less in the right spot. His peak was a long time ago.

He's not being denied though. He's being offered it conditionally.