Aki Basho 2021 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers!)

[Katooshu 3,265]

Aw crap, Kitanowaka missed juryo promotion

[Seiyashi 4,105]

4 hours ago, Sue said:

If there's normally a shin-Yokozuna hangover in their first basho, Terunofuji is already outperforming that. He's currently on pace to finish Y-J-Y over his last three bashos. If he collapses over his last three matches, then there's a conversation to be had, but it's waaaaaaaay too early to be pressing the panic button on him.

Not to mention losses to the ozeki won't automatically be collapses either, especially a loss to Takakeisho. 

[WAKATAKE 2,667]

Abi takes the sole lead of the juryo race and may even be in position to jump Akua for the promotion que

[Eikokurai 3,437]

4 hours ago, Sue said:

If there's normally a shin-Yokozuna hangover in their first basho, Terunofuji is already outperforming that. He's currently on pace to finish Y-J-Y over his last three bashos. If he collapses over his last three matches, then there's a conversation to be had, but it's waaaaaaaay too early to be pressing the panic button on him.

Go back further: D-J-Y-Y-J-Y* all ranked at Komusubi or above, which is basically all the same as far as scheduling is concerned.
 

*TBD

[Seiyashi 4,105]

30 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Go back further: D-J-Y-Y-J-Y* all ranked at Komusubi or above, which is basically all the same as far as scheduling is concerned.
 

*TBD

Even if not Y, I think he's almost mathematically certain to be J at least with the way the scheduling is panning out. To be fair though, to get promoted to yokozuna in the first place, you need to have a pretty hot previous two or so basho, so while he is performing to a high level it's not entirely unexpected as a reference point against other yokozuna.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=y&form1_year=1940-2021&form1_debutr=on&sort_basho=1&sort_by=record

As it is, by hitting the yokozuna kachi koshi, Terunofuji has only beaten 8 of the 38 yokozuna to have been promoted in the 15 days per basho era. Another 9 or so made it to 10, so Terunofuji is still firmly below average at this point. Winning today makes him average (and ties him with Hakuho's 11-4 debut, shared with notably Kitanoumi and Hokutoumi amongst others), but he needs to go 12 or above to really be considered a good shin-yokozuna performance and to have beaten the shin-yokozuna hangover.

The bigger question of course is whether or not his losses to Daieisho and Meisei disclose the dohyo iri taking a toll on his honbasho performance, which I guess we'll have to wait to see today against Mitakeumi, who might well be able to exploit any shakiness in Terunofuji's undercarriage. Even so, I don't think he's necessarily going to be in for much opprobium if his knee injuries do act up, because surely the NSK and YDC must have known about his medical history and they knew what they were buying, so to speak. It won't be reasonable to expect him to perform as if he's a fit young yokozuna about to embark on a yusho rampage, when what he's already done is yokozuna level.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Kaninoyama 1,801]

A win by Endo to stay in the hunt. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Check out Tochinoshin winning his fifth straight to put himself back in positive numbers, just one win from his first kachikoshi since November.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

55 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

The bigger question of course is whether or not his losses to Daieisho and Meisei disclose the dohyo iri taking a toll on his honbasho performance,

I don’t think that the dohyo-iri can be really pinpointed as the cause of any late-basho blips. It’s just as likely to be general wear and/or fatigue the likes of which many rikishi get as the tournament rolls on. If you look at his pre-Yokozuna records, his losses almost always come in the middle third or final third, rarely in the first, and he had no dohyo-iri then.

Take that six basho run mentioned above:

13-2 (losses on days 8 and 9)

11-4 (days 2, 4, 6 and 10)

12-3 (days 5, 8 and 10)

12-3 (days 11, 14 and 15)

14-1 (day 15)

10-2 (days 9 and 12)*

By period:

First five days: 3 losses

Middle five days: 7 losses

Last five days: 5 losses

Edited September 24, 2021 by Eikokurai
Fixed the numbers

[Katooshu 3,265]

Holy crap, Myogiru beats Takakeisho for the first time in 14 matches.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Holy crap, Myogiru beats Takakeisho for the first time in 14 matches.

Wow

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Holy crap, Myogiru beats Takakeisho for the first time in 14 matches.

And Onosho beats Shodai! We now have three guys on 10-3 with Terunofuji still to fight.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

8 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

And Onosho beats Shodai! We now have three guys on 10-3 with Terunofuji still to fight.

Order is restored as Terunofuji beats Mitakeumi to retain his one-win lead. Still, we’ve got a weekend with plenty of potential twists and turns ahead of us with that chasing pack behind him, all of whom can keep themselves in the hunt as they’ve not been scheduled against each other (assuming they haven’t faced each other already, which I’ve not checked).

Edited September 24, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi 4,105]

Ah well, the ozeki dream was good while it lasted. Unless Mitakeumi does everyone a favour.

Ok no, he didn't, but he's looked better against Terunofuji than he ever has before.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Katooshu 3,265]

Now, in the movies this is where the ragtag pack of maegashira would resolve their differences, combine their strengths, and collectively take down the big evil monster. The movie would be called Maegashira 27, since m6 + m10 + m11 = m27 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Katooshu

[Eikokurai 3,437]

6 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Now, in the movies this is where the ragtag pack of maegashira would resolve their differences, combine their strengths, and collectively take down the big evil monster. 

Onosho sacrifices himself by going down on all fours behind Terunofuji (tsukihiza loss) so that veterans Endo and Myogiryu can join hands and clothesline the Yokozuna, who stumbles back over Onosho and off the dohyo. Endo and Myogiryu share the yusho, harshly cutting Onosho out of his promised share of the spoils.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Eikokurai

[themistyseas 242]

23 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Still, we’ve got a weekend with plenty of potential twists and turns ahead of us with that chasing pack behind him, all of whom can keep themselves in the hunt as they’ve not been scheduled against each other (assuming they haven’t faced each other already, which I’ve not checked).

They have all faced each other already. Shodai's loss seems to make it likely that he's getting Takakeisho (or maybe even Mitakeumi or even Endo?) rather than the Yokozuna on senshuraku, especially if we see more wins from the 10-3 crew tomorrow. The indignity!

[Jakusotsu 6,000]

Now is the right time to start missing Hakuho...

[Masunofuji 36]

Should have gone kyujo rather than lose to someone you've been consistently beating for years. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

4 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Aw crap, Kitanowaka missed juryo promotion

Not only that, he lost the Makushita yusho to Fukai.  Sigh. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

The torikumi matches today were skilfully crafted (thank you Isegahama oyakata).  

ShinYokozuna Terunofuji went up against the top junior Sanyaku man, and did what he needed to do, i.e., win.  

However, the two Ozekis went up against two of the rank-and-file trailers (M10w Myogiryu and M6w Onosho) and had their mawashis handed to them.  Fans expect Ozeki to win, especially against Maegashira opponents.  For one of the two Ozekis to give up a ginboshi silver star is bad enough, but for both to do so on the same day is somewhat shameful.  Sure Myogiryu and Onosho were keyed up because they are in the yusho hunt.  But Takakeisho and Shodai should have been aware that they needed to up their own game.  

OK, both Takakeisho and Shodai have managed to secure kachikoshis, but they are not truly living up to their unwritten responsibility as gatekeepers against lower ranking challengers.

Of the three trailers left, Myogiryu and Onosho have both overcome true tests of their worth (i.e., Ozeki bouts).  If by some twist of fate they end up stealing the yusho, they can hold their heads up high.

[Seiyashi 4,105]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

The torikumi matches today were skilfully crafted (thank you Isegahama oyakata).  

ShinYokozuna Terunofuji went up against the top junior Sanyaku man, and did what he needed to do, i.e., win.  

However, the two Ozekis went up against two of the rank-and-file trailers (M10w Myogiryu and M6w Onosho) and had their mawashis handed to them.  Fans expect Ozeki to win, especially against Maegashira opponents.  For one of the two Ozekis to give up a ginboshi silver star is bad enough, but for both to do so on the same day is somewhat shameful.  Sure Myogiryu and Onosho were keyed up because they are in the yusho hunt.  But Takakeisho and Shodai should have been aware that they needed to up their own game.  

OK, both Takakeisho and Shodai have managed to secure kachikoshis, but they are not truly living up to their unwritten responsibility as gatekeepers against lower ranking challengers.

Of the three trailers left, Myogiryu and Onosho have both overcome true tests of their worth (i.e., Ozeki bouts).  If by some twist of fate they end up stealing the yusho, they can hold their heads up high.

It's probably best saved for post basho analysis, but I wonder whether or not the torikumi committee does plan bouts with the worst case scenario in mind. Which begs the question of what their best case scenario is.

[themistyseas 242]

43 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

It's probably best saved for post basho analysis, but I wonder whether or not the torikumi committee does plan bouts with the worst case scenario in mind. Which begs the question of what their best case scenario is.

In this basho's case I think it's certainly been helped by the urgent care unit that is the joi-jin, and also the absence of Hakuho. While that doesn't change the fact that either the Yokozuna won't face both Ozeki or the Ozeki won't face each other (or both), the higher rankers have had plenty of match days throughout the basho where the schedulers have had to dip quite a way down owing to the absence of a Yokozuna plus, at times Hokutofuji, Takayasu, Hoshoryu, Kotonowaka...

It's such a mess in that area that it feels like they would have found it hard to reach their best case scenario, even if Shodai and Takakeisho had rattled off a couple extra wins.

Forgive me if this was posted earlier and I missed it, but today was the first time in over 82 years that an M1 has faced an M17!? Yikes. An unlike last year's Tokushoryu/Terunofuji M17 fun, this time the M17 wasn't even in the yusho race.

[Rocks 1,809]

Well, inexplicably Takakeisho comes out tentative to a guy who has never beat him and was standing there ready to lose again. Myogiryu stands around and says 'Well, if you are going to do that I might as well give it a shot" and wins. Yuhso race is over. They scheduled Takakeisho against Terunfuji but Terunofuji wins easily I should think. Not much reason for Takakiesho to go all out with his KK in hand which might also explain why he fought Myogiryu the way he did today. I don't expect Shodai to give Terunofuji  much trouble either.   I am happy for Myogiryu, Endo and Onosho though.  I hope they all beat their Sanyaku opponents Day 14 and clinch their Jun Yushos and Sanshos. They deserve it. They have been bringing all the entertainment this basho.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

15 minutes ago, themistyseas said:

Forgive me if this was posted earlier and I missed it, but today was the first time in over 82 years that an M1 has faced an M17!?

Wow, that is something, though of course with the caveat that M17 hasn’t been a regular banzuke rank since Makuuchi was fixed at 42 rikishi and apparently there have only ever been 247 M17s in history, with a gap of nearly 44 years! Even so, there were plenty of years with ranks running even lower than that, so it’s still a cool bit of trivia.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&rowcount=5&form1_rank=M17

[Morty 1,498]

Endo Yusho - you heard it here first.