Aki Basho 2021 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers!)

[Seiyashi 4,068]

And now the basho is blown open, because now both ozeki can still bring Terunofuji to a playoff if they both beat him and win out otherwise to bring him level - plus since they're gatekeeping the motley crew of chasers, they'll also winnow down that pack. Suddenly this basho is getting really gripping.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

That stack of kensho prize money and the glory of a gold star won significant upset today by Meisei will go a long, long way to cheer up stablemates Akua and Hoshoryu who both lost their bouts today!  Very well played by Meisei!  We are starting to see the chinks in Terunofuji's armour.  Even though the new Yokozuna has a one-win lead, this tournament is far from over!

Edited September 23, 2021 by Amamaniac

[code_number3 694]

3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

That stack of kensho prize money and the glory of a gold star won today by Meisei will go a long, long way to cheer up stable mates Akua and Hoshoryu who both lost their bouts today!  Very well played by Meisei!  We are starting to see the chinks in Terunofuji's armour.  Even though the new Yokozuna has a one win lead, this tournament is far from over!

Meisei is sekiwake bro. So not a kinboshi 

But a great achievement for beating Terunofuji first time in his career.

Edited September 23, 2021 by code_number3

[code_number3 694]

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

And now the basho is blown open, because now both ozeki can still bring Terunofuji to a playoff if they both beat him and win out otherwise to bring him level - plus since they're gatekeeping the motley crew of chasers, they'll also winnow down that pack. Suddenly this basho is getting really gripping.

Now i see the reason for the matchups. Ozekis vs 3-losses rikishis.

Edited September 23, 2021 by code_number3

[Amamaniac 2,078]

I sort of liked the use of a harite by Takakeisho against Takarafuji today.  Generally I have a dislike for them.  But in this case, the slap was firm but not a roundhouse affair.  It looked like Takakeisho's way of communicating to Takarafuji saying "Look, I'm the Ozeki here.  Don't try and mess with me."

Meanwhile, down in Juryo, Takakeisho's less-mature stablemate Takakento overreacted to a slap from opponent Shohozan.  As soon as he was hit, Takakento reacted with about two or three return slaps (perhaps frustrated by his poor record to date).  That seemed to suggest that there is a culture of anger at Tokiwayama Stable (tracing back to Takanohana oyakata).  I'm lumping in the Kamiyama bully twins here.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

15 minutes ago, code_number3 said:

Meisei is sekiwake bro. So not a kinboshi 

My bad.   I guess I was overexcited about the upset by a wrestler that deserves more praise than he gets.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Amamaniac

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Ugh. I chose to stick to my swimming schedule instead of watching the last half dozen bouts and I go and miss Terunofuji losing to Meisei! Shame Myogiryu also lost so it doesn’t alter much in the yusho race.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi 4,068]

4 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I sort of liked the use of a harite by Takakeisho against Takarafuji today.  Generally I have a dislike for them.  But in this case, the slap was firm but not a roundhouse affair.  It looked like Takakeisho's way of communicating to Takarafuji saying "Look, I'm the Ozeki here.  Don't try and mess with me."

Meanwhile, down in Juryo, Takakeisho's less-mature stablemate Takakento overreacted to a slap from opponent Shohozan.  As soon as he was hit, Takakento reacted with about two or three return slaps (perhaps frustrated by his poor record to date).  That seemed to suggest that there is a culture of anger at Tokiwayama Stable (tracing back to Takanohana oyakata).  I'm lumping in the Kamiyama bully twins here.

Shohozan had gotten in a few good slaps himself, though, so I would hardly call that an overreaction. More importantly, they'd been locked up for a bit, so Takakento probably thought Shohozan disengaging and going for the harite was a good opportunity for him to go on the offensive himself.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

Just now, Eikokurai said:

Ugh. I chose to stick to my swimming schedule instead of watching the last half dozen bouts and I go and miss Terunofuji losing to Meisei! Shame Myogiryu also lost so it doesn’t alter much in the yusho race.

Au contraire, it means the ozeki are suddenly in a position to catch Terunofuji if they can both beat him. And forcing a playoff with him also means that they'll be dismissing 4 pretenders between the two of them over the next three days (accounting for 1 bout each with Terunofuji), so the yusho race is the most interesting it's ever been in the basho.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

Au contraire, it means the ozeki are suddenly in a position to catch Terunofuji if they can both beat him. And forcing a playoff with him also means that they'll be dismissing 4 pretenders between the two of them over the next three days (accounting for 1 bout each with Terunofuji), so the yusho race is the most interesting it's ever been in the basho.

I mean in the sense that it’s still all in Terunofuji’s own hands. Nothing changed in that regard.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Au contraire, it means the ozeki are suddenly in a position to catch Terunofuji if they can both beat him. And forcing a playoff with him also means that they'll be dismissing 4 pretenders between the two of them over the next three days (accounting for 1 bout each with Terunofuji), so the yusho race is the most interesting it's ever been in the basho.

And don't forget that the minute Myogiryu lost to Kagayaki, on paper Terunofuji had a two-win cushion (so the loss to Meisei changed that in a big way).

[Seiyashi 4,068]

4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I mean in the sense that it’s still all in Terunofuji’s own hands. Nothing changed in that regard.

I mean, it's always in a rikishi's own hands whether he yushos, right? Just that the way the ozeki got their basho started, it didn't even seem like they had it in their hands.

I'm particularly happy for Takakeisho, who's decent trouble for Terunofuji and seems to be salvaging this basho from an absolute car crash of a start. It's a long shot, but he'll be the toast of the town if he can pull off a yusho this time out - and move into solo third place for most yusho won by rikishi on the current banzuke IIRC.

1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

And don't forget that the minute Myogiryu lost to Kagayaki, on paper Terunofuji had a two-win cushion (so the loss to Meisei changed that in a big way).

Yeah. Some nice prophylaxis by the torikumi committee, because now Myogiryu gatekeeps Takakeisho. If Terunofuji had won again today I don't think any other possible arrangement of bouts in the closing three days would have seriously threatened his yusho, so the torikumi committee seems to have planned on the assumption that he lost - and it paid off.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

I mean, it's always in a rikishi's own hands whether he yushos, right? Just that the way the ozeki got their basho started, it didn't even seem like they had it in their hands.

I'm particularly happy for Takakeisho, who's decent trouble for Terunofuji and seems to be salvaging this basho from an absolute car crash of a start. It's a long shot, but he'll be the toast of the town if he can pull off a yusho this time out - and move into solo third place for most yusho won by rikishi on the current banzuke IIRC.

I think you know what I mean. He had a one win lead before; he has a one win lead now. The gap didn’t change.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

16 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I think you know what I mean. He had a one win lead before; he has a one win lead now. The gap didn’t change.

The gap with Myogiryu didn't change. But Takakeisho, Onosho, Okinoumi and Endo with their wins today have crept up on him, and now he himself needs to deal with his opposition to ensure the yusho instead of leaving them to dispose of each other behind him. If he had won today, neither ozeki would have been able to catch him even if they both beat him, while Takakeisho would still be motivated to clear kadoban against Myogiryu and take him down even had Myogiryu won also. So in that scenario, even had both he and Myogiryu won, he would have been handed a relatively clear road to the yusho, and if only he had won, he would be practically guaranteed the cup.

Now, both ozeki surely must be motivated that there is a mathematical possibility of themselves seizing the cup, if they can stay perfect and team up together to take down Terunofuji. Otherwise, there was nothing on the line for them other than Takakeisho clearing kadoban, which is almost probably going to happen by senshuraku.

In a sense you're right that it's more in his hands than ever, but that I think flips it even more from what you meant. In any case, time to break out the popcorn. A lot more matches became interesting all of a sudden.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,068]

36 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I sort of liked the use of a harite by Takakeisho against Takarafuji today.  Generally I have a dislike for them.  But in this case, the slap was firm but not a roundhouse affair.  It looked like Takakeisho's way of communicating to Takarafuji saying "Look, I'm the Ozeki here.  Don't try and mess with me."

Oooh, I'm probably reading too much into it, but the slow motion shows it was much more than that.

Takakeisho seems to have changed his tachi-ai subtly to lead more with his right shoulder instead into a kachiage-like upward motion (but pressing against the opponent's chest instead of the chin), and moving into his favoured double-handed push. But he reads Takarafuji's reaction against the tachiai and switches to pull laterally instead, pulling Takarafuji across him and disorienting Takarafuji who has to turn to meet Takakeisho's next attack. One exchange of thrusts later has them separate, and the harite here makes Takarafuji flinch and back off upright, which opens him up for two more wave-action tsuppari thrusts to send him over the tawara.

It might have been a Takarafuji-specific strategy to constantly keep him disoriented and unable to defend, but boy it worked like a treat.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

That was a Shodai-level tachiai from Terunofuji today. Perhaps his knees are hurting really bad at this stage of the basho, but he was caught extremely upright by Meisei, who then took advantage of an off-kilter Yokozuna to clinch the prize today. Well done Meisei! Speaking of Shodai, his upright tachiai enabled Ichinojo to get a belt hold immediately, and with poor balance, was slapped down with little resistance. Despite a shaky start and a lot of people writing him off earlier, Takakeisho regained his composure for the KK. Takarafuji had little momentum after being disoriented and was promptly sent out of the ring. 

... 

... 

Myogiryu yusho? Oh my god... 

Edited September 23, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Rocks 1,804]

Wow, very nervous/hesitant bout from Terunofuji. He did not want to use that left leg. I wonder if he hurt himself to in that Takayasu match yesterday. 

[lackmaker 428]

Only 3 days to go, a one win lead and all of the immediate chasers outside the joi. Things can change but there's a clear favourite.

[Rocks 1,804]

They are skipping the Shodai/Takakeisho  match? Are they trying to artificially create some drama for the Yusho here? Kinda silly. Unless Terunofuji goes kyujo I don't see less than 12 wins taking this. The eight win guys are out IMO. Maybe they actually bought into Mitakeumi's "Secret strategy" silliness and figured he would beat Onosho easy and still be in the race Day 13. Mitakeumi isn't beating Terunofuji tomorrow unless Terunofuji doesn't show up.

[RabidJohn 1,631]

2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

My bad.   I guess I was overexcited about the upset by a wrestler that deserves more praise than he gets.

You're not the only one. I distinctly heard the Japanese commentator exclaim, "Meisei hatsu kinboshi!"

[Jakusotsu 5,739]

26 minutes ago, Rocks said:

They are skipping the Shodai/Takakeisho  match?

Since they've painted themselves in a corner with their day 13 schedule, I have a different theory: Shodai will meet Takakeisho on day 14, and Terunofuji will get the better Ozeki on Senshuraku.

[Rocks 1,804]

51 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Since they've painted themselves in a corner with their day 13 schedule, I have a different theory: Shodai will meet Takakeisho on day 14, and Terunofuji will get the better Ozeki on Senshuraku.

Sponsors and fans look forward to the  big name high ranking bouts. I think Terunofuji will face both. They might of skipped one if either Ozeki was south of KK. 

Outside of Endo I don't think there are any of the 9 win chasers anyone wants to see Terunofuji face. Might have been a different story if Myogiryu had won last night. But with that loss and a sure loss to a resurgent Takakeisho he's done. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Rocks

[Amamaniac 2,078]

I'm trying to make sense of what is happening this tournament, to Terunofuji in particular.

Is he overthinking things now that the weight of his new status is bearing down on him?

Is he overwhelmed/distracted by all the extra stuff he has to do as a Yokozuna?

Is he perhaps injured, as some have already speculated?

Have some of his opponents gone on a steep learning curve, and figured out the most effective way to handle him?

Is he missing the sense of competition that Hakuho inspired in the last tournament?

Whatever it is, he better regroup and regroup fast!  While I am happy for any wrestler who ends up winning the Cup, I want to see Terunofuji win his debut tournament as a Yokozuna – in part because I also want to see Waka III break the curse of his failed predictions.

[Seiyashi 4,068]

17 minutes ago, Rocks said:

27 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Since they've painted themselves in a corner with their day 13 schedule, I have a different theory: Shodai will meet Takakeisho on day 14, and Terunofuji will get the better Ozeki on Senshuraku.

Sponsors and fans look forward to the  big name high ranking bouts. I think Terunofuji will face both. They might of skipped one if either Ozeki was south of KK. 

Outside of Endo I don't think their are any of the 9 win chasers anyone wants to see Terunofuji face. Might have been a different story if Myogiryu had won last night. But with that loss and a sure loss to a resurgent Takakeisho he's done. 

Agreed. The fact that both ozeki are mathematically in contention and can do it with defeats of Terunofuji means that there's an incentive to have both of them face Terunofuji, rather than ease Terunofuji's path by having one of the ozeki gatekeep the other. I wouldn't call it artificially manufacturing drama, but perhaps more a way to make sure Terunofuji fully deserves his yusho especially now that he lost to Meisei.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Taliesin 68]

Imagine if Takakeisho who got his 8-th win goes kyujo right now... Some interesting reactions would follow.